Top 50 Most Popular Modern Coins- Let's Talk Moderns!

[John Maben]

Sought after is mentioned repeatedly. The title was not intended to be misleading, all of the coins either are currently popular or were based on the demand that we see or have seen. As previously mentioned coins fall in and out of favor and this was taken into consideration. As well, we did not want to omit coins that are being ignored at the moment because often those are the coins that in the long run come back into favor.

 

"The list of 50 is functionally a list of 24 as you have included many "blocks" of bullion issues in all denominations for the same year. If your wanted to create a list of 50 and allow for a bit more research and variety, why didn't you simply list them as one entry. For example, #25-#28 could have been included as one entry as "2008-W Mint State Burnished Gold Eagles", instead of 4 separate issues separate for the $5, $10, $25, and $50. The same could be said for the separate listing of the Gold First Spouse issues separate into two entries for the Proof and MS coins. With all due respect, it comes across as simply a lazy listing with little if any thought to numismatics as a science and field of research."

 

Answer: No laziness intended. Remember this is at least partially about helping people with direction in collecting. To only list parts of a set would not be as much fun and the mintages vary among coins in each of the given sets. Also each coin is described and evaluated as it's own coin so why not keep them as individuals?

 

I have purchased many modern coins from MCM, and I find their customer service to be among the best of any dealers out there. But, I have a hard time separating this new book from the also relatively new offerings on the MCM site and marketing frenzy. I felt that when MCM introduced the "As Seen on MCTV" focus, they really cheapened their image. I have purchased well over $2000 in actual coins (not bullion gold, silver, or platinum issues) in the past year. Since the focus shifted in the MCM marketing to peddling wares to compete with HSN and QVC I have not spent a dime with MCM. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I loved that your business was focused on high grade modern coin issues...which are now basically non-existent in your inventory.

 

Answer: I want to stay focused on the book and modern coins in general. MCTV, while available on internet only, is for those that prefer the TV format. MCTV prices are no where near TV prices in most cases and the show actually provides useful historical information. I sell nothing but high grade modern issues so I don't understand your last comment. Throughout the book, MCM is not mentioned once by name and only referenced briefly in my bio/intro and again not by name.

 

The U.S. Mint advertises the Silver Eagles, Gold Eagles, and Platinum Eagles as "Bullion Coins for Investors". The proof versions of some are specifically targeted at collectors. Nonetheless, I will repeat again, the list is mostly a compendium of gold, silver, and platinum issues among their respective issues that demand the highest premium over melt. The UHR is a particular exception, as it was minted almost solely for collectors.

 

Answer: We won't agree here. There are no "pure bullion" issues in the Top 50. The uncirculated coins here you may be thinking of are the burnished W coins not the bullion coins.

 

In summary, this book screams "marketing" to me. To assume that we are so daft as to think otherwise is somewhat insulting. Especially given that a competing and very-well written book "100 Greatest Modern U.S. Coins" was released only a little over a year ago. The 100 Greatest also includes some bullion issues, but is more inclusive of circulation coinage as well.

 

Answer: I already addressed this. If marketing means getting new people involved and educating existing you are correct but it is primarily an educational tool and until you have read it it makes no sense to make such an uninformed comment. Not to say you should not have your own opinion but wait until you have all the info to form that opinion. As for the Top 100, our objective was not 100% the same. We wanted a book that contained coins that were all obtainable to encourage set building and entry into the hobby having more focus on popularity with nothing esoteric. If you read both books you will see how they differ and that both have their place.

 

As someone else mentioned, it would be great if someone would publish a book listing the "Most Elusive Modern Coins, 1965-Date". It would be a compendium of almost impossible to find coins that are not on the radar of most collectors. For example, the 1980-D or 1980-P Roosevelt dime with FT designation. They just don't exist...I dare you to try to find one in MS65 even.

 

Answer: As Eric mentioned, and with no disrespect intended, I think clad coinage is just really not our thing. I think people should collect what they like but I am not going to write about things that I don't know a great deal about. Someone will eventually.

 

I appreciate the point by point replies to all of our questions. This discussion is very helpful.

 

Answer: Likewise, and thank you.

[James_OldeTowne]

That list of fifty is not a list of "moderns", but a list of "ultra-moderns", as it doesn't seem to include anything from the 1950s - early 1990s.

 

As for what is truly "popular"... for the coins that you sell as a dealer, which ones do you pay the best return on? In other words, if a dealer sells a coin for $1000, but will buy it back for only $250, then it definitely isn't "popular". In my experience, the smaller the buy/sell spread, the more "popular" the coin is.

 

(Of course, bullion always has a tiny spread, "popular" or not.)

[brg5658]

I have purchased many modern coins from MCM, and I find their customer service to be among the best of any dealers out there. But, I have a hard time separating this new book from the also relatively new offerings on the MCM site and marketing frenzy. I felt that when MCM introduced the "As Seen on MCTV" focus, they really cheapened their image. I have purchased well over $2000 in actual coins (not bullion gold, silver, or platinum issues) in the past year. Since the focus shifted in the MCM marketing to peddling wares to compete with HSN and QVC I have not spent a dime with MCM. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I loved that your business was focused on high grade modern coin issues...which are now basically non-existent in your inventory.

 

Answer: I want to stay focused on the book and modern coins in general not MCM. MCTV educates those that prefer the TV format. Our prices are no where near TV prices in most cases and we actually provide useful historical information. We sell nothing but high grade modern issues so I don't understand your last comment. Throughout the book, "moderncoinmart" is not mentioned once by name and only referenced briefly in my bio/intro and again not by name. Also as mentioned I have asked NGC to change my forum name from MCM to John Maben.

 

Firstly, John, thanks so much for all the thought and time you've put into your responses. My comment about MCM inventory basically having no high grade modern coin issues was referencing high grade circulation strike coins (not gold, silver, platinum, commemoratives, etc). The last few years your site offered one of the best places to buy affordable and high grade mint issued circulation coinage. It seems when the MCTV focus came about, the circulation coin focus disappeared. That was what my comment was intended to convey.

 

Additionally, when you are a leader in the business of selling modern coins, it is almost impossible to separate yourself from that when writing a book. In addition, I will conjecture that MCM will be one of the largest promoters of the new NGC "Top 50" label (I'm just guessing here). And, again, given your history of being formerly employed by NGC it's hard for any of us to believe that the decision for the new label was made in a vacuum with no input from you. I'm not saying you shouldn't make money, or promote your business interests, but from the outside looking in, this book screams "marketing". And, by "marketing" I don't mean promoting the hobby or numismatics in general -- I mean unabashed advertising.

 

Respectfully,

-Brandon

 

[ericj96-migration]

“With all due respect, it comes across as simply a lazy listing with little if any thought to numismatics as a science and field of research.”

 

Answer: You may not like the listing and there may be some valid suggestions for minor changes but to suggest it includes "little if any thought to numismatics as a science and field of research" is not rational. I do as much series behavioral research as anyone. Lots of super strong material and keys to big series included in that list.

 

Lets put it this way, if you are a collector of modern series struck on non base metals and you don’t buy at least some of the coins on that list then over time you have just messed up.

 

[brg5658]

“With all due respect, it comes across as simply a lazy listing with little if any thought to numismatics as a science and field of research.”

 

Answer: You may not like the listing and there may be some valid suggestions for minor changes but to suggest it includes "little if any thought to numismatics as a science and field of research" is not rational. I do as much series behavioral research as anyone. Lots of super strong material and keys to big series included in that list.

 

Lets put it this way, if you are a collector of modern series struck on non base metals and you don’t buy at least some of the coins on that list then over time you have just messed up.

 

Without getting into ad hominem attacks, and because the book is not even yet available (release date of June 7, 2012), I will just comment on what pieces I can see of it on Amazon "preview".

 

My career is that of a professional statistician, with 50 peer reviewed articles in scientific journals. The book (as far as I can tell) would never pass muster for scientific rigor on many fronts. Namely, that your "popularity" index is just a personal favorites list of the authors. Secondly, it is not comprehensive in any way (as the sub-title suggests). Thirdly, I would argue that the use of the word "coin" is used loosely, as 98% of the issues are not circulation coinage, but are commemorative issues or special versions of bullion issues. Lastly, I don't understand what experienced collector would find any of the information presented to be novel or surprising. One thing I do agree with is the pricing ($10 on Amazon). You get what you pay for.

 

I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree.

[BillJones]

The 2009 Ultra High Relief $20 gold is only #50? That ranking is way off by my reckoning. Although the coin has high mintage of over 115,000, and high grade examples are selling for over $3,000, which way over melt.

 

My taste in modern coins is much different from most people. I mostly like the commemorative issues, and I admire pieces with attractive designs regardless of their price, rarity or mintage. Therefore coins like the Statue of Liberty half dollar would rank higher on my list than the Jackie Roberson $5 gold coins. I even prefer the Statue of Liberty and Columbus $5 gold coins to the Jackie Robinson $5. In contrast the reverse of the Mt. Rushmore $5 gold is a waste of space and easily one of the worst designs in the whole commemorative series simply because the artist was so lazy.

 

Looking over this list, I think that marketing and the potential for marketing have more to do with the rankings than any other criteria.

 

[Arizonadesertrat]

"...It's really disappointing to see the hobby being taken over by marketing and hype..."

 

That horse left the barn about a century ago (with the entry of Max Mehl into the ranking of high-profile dealers), then coin boards and coin albums, PNG, TPG-graded coins, registry sets.....

[BillJones]

"...It's really disappointing to see the hobby being taken over by marketing and hype..."

 

That horse left the barn about a century ago (with the entry of Max Mehl into the ranking of high-profile dealers), then coin boards and coin albums, PNG, TPG-graded coins, registry sets.....

 

Marketing plays a role in all successful business activities. I think the point we want to make is that it should not dominate the collecting hobby.

 

As for B. Max Mehl, I'm not old enough to have had anything to do with his company, but I knew some collectors who were from my father's generation (born 1910 to 1920) who did. He was a great salesman, but he was not high on the list of great numismatists.

[delta]

To Ericj96:

 

Hi Eric, You have also made comments with another different user name here in the NGC forums, please allow me to suggest you try consolidating your postings that have appeared under the two different monikkers.

 

Your other user name is: Eric.Jordan

 

P.S. Glad to have you posting here, your insightful input is highly appreciated!

[cladking]

As for B. Max Mehl, I'm not old enough to have had anything to do with his company, but I knew some collectors who were from my father's generation (born 1910 to 1920) who did. He was a great salesman, but he was not high on the list of great numismatists.

 

Sure. But we still owe B Max Mehl a great debt for popularizing the hobby. It may still be the hobby of kings but now we have millions of kings rather than a handful of dozens.

 

While people might call popularizing recent date coins "promotion" it's all just words. The bottom line is that much more "popularizing" and "promotion" is done in the classic coins than in the moderns. We've all seen the two paragraph descritions of the beauty, importance, and desirability of a 1792 disme for sale. So why not delineate the attributes of a 2007 coin? Just because I generally prefer my coins from the late 20th century is no reason not to praise and love later issues.

 

Some of these later issues do have a lot going for them. People point at the low mintages and say " they all survive", but this won't be true forever. Every year they get lost through fire, flood, and misadventure and when you start with low numbers you can't end up with high numbers. Most of the coins on the list are precious metals and collectors have always shown a preference for them.

 

I don't believe collectibles is a proper place for investment but as long as collectors buy these and others know the risk, there really isn't a problem in my eyes. One risk that isn't always very apparent is that anything requires demand to become valuable. Low mintages don't automatically confer demand even though collectors do seek rarity. Even if you're right in your predictions time can make still make you wrong.

[John Maben]

"Lastly, I don't understand what experienced collector would find any of the information presented to be novel or surprising. One thing I do agree with is the pricing ($10 on Amazon). You get what you pay for.

 

I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree."

 

?

 

You've seen nothing other than a cover and a list. How can you make this particular statement at this point in time? Time will tell if the book and label prove worthwhile to the community. Why would anyone pre-judge the value and merits of the book before even seeing it, doing so without 99% of the required information? I can tell you with reasonable certainty it will be considered a must have reference for many that are interested in modern coins and will inspire many to begin collecting that have either never collected or gave it up years ago.

 

John

 

PS- Cladking- Some very good points!

[brg5658]

"Lastly, I don't understand what experienced collector would find any of the information presented to be novel or surprising. One thing I do agree with is the pricing ($10 on Amazon). You get what you pay for.

 

I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree."

 

?

 

You've seen nothing other than a cover and a list. How can you make this particular statement at this point in time? Time will tell if the book and label prove worthwhile to the community. Why would anyone pre-judge the value and merits of the book before even seeing it, doing so without 99% of the required information? I can tell you with reasonable certainty it will be considered a must have reference for many that are interested in modern coins and will inspire many to begin collecting that have either never collected or gave it up years ago.

 

John

 

PS- Cladking- Some very good points!

 

John, go to Amazon. You can see at least 2 full entries for the interior of the book. They don't appear to be anything beyond the information readily available from the US Mint or a simple Google search. Time will tell

 

Also, I am more than reasonably interested in "modern coins". The problem is, even if the book goes into amazing details for the 50 "coins" listed, I don't collect overpriced US Mint trinket bullion...I collect modern circulating coinage (gasp).

[John Maben]

Ahhh... the click to look inside thing is very cool. That was not there until recently.

 

To each his own, trust me if everyone considered these coins "trinket bullion" a major part of the business would not exist. I know of at least 20,000 people that like these exact coins or coins like them, and I am but one dealer.

 

John

[RWB]

Ah.....just another dealer promotion. No wonder collectors are so cynical.

[physics-fan3.14]

Ah.....just another dealer promotion. No wonder collectors are so cynical.

 

:thumbsup:

[James_OldeTowne]

Ahhh... the click to look inside thing is very cool. That was not there until recently.

 

To each his own, trust me if everyone considered these coins "trinket bullion" a major part of the business would not exist. I know of at least 20,000 people that like these exact coins or coins like them, and I am but one dealer.

 

John

John, would you please address my previous point? For ultra-modern coins that you sell to collectors, what percentage would you typically "buy back" the coin for at a later date? I'm not referring to returns or bullion, of course. Basically, if I buy an ultra-modern from you, and next year I decide I'd like to sell it back to you, what kind of spread might I expect?

[DirtyGoldMan]

Ahhh... the click to look inside thing is very cool. That was not there until recently.

 

To each his own, trust me if everyone considered these coins "trinket bullion" a major part of the business would not exist. I know of at least 20,000 people that like these exact coins or coins like them, and I am but one dealer.

 

John

John, would you please address my previous point? For ultra-modern coins that you sell to collectors, what percentage would you typically "buy back" the coin for at a later date? I'm not referring to returns or bullion, of course. Basically, if I buy an ultra-modern from you, and next year I decide I'd like to sell it back to you, what kind of spread might I expect?

I will answer for JM: "It depends."

 

It ranges from a substantial profit to the collector to no reasonable offer--just like in classic coins.

 

I personally have found the ultramodern area to have significant upside and very little downside, especially when you buy directly from the Mint or prior to the next round of promotion. Of course, past performance does not guarantee future returns, and your mileage may vary.

[John Maben]

Ahhh... the click to look inside thing is very cool. That was not there until recently.

 

To each his own, trust me if everyone considered these coins "trinket bullion" a major part of the business would not exist. I know of at least 20,000 people that like these exact coins or coins like them, and I am but one dealer.

 

John

John, would you please address my previous point? For ultra-modern coins that you sell to collectors, what percentage would you typically "buy back" the coin for at a later date? I'm not referring to returns or bullion, of course. Basically, if I buy an ultra-modern from you, and next year I decide I'd like to sell it back to you, what kind of spread might I expect?

I will answer for JM: "It depends."

 

It ranges from a substantial profit to the collector to no reasonable offer--just like in classic coins.

 

I personally have found the ultramodern area to have significant upside and very little downside, especially when you buy directly from the Mint or prior to the next round of promotion. Of course, past performance does not guarantee future returns, and your mileage may vary.

 

James- What Dirty Gold Man said plus this:

 

One of the reasons I focus on Silver, Gold, and Platinum modern coins more than the others is because of higher overall value retention vs moderns that are not struck on precious metals. I would estimate that two out of three items bought from us could be sold back for 8% to10% less the NEXT DAY (not the next year) but as time marches on it could be anywhere from a big loss to a big profit due to changing markets. Of the remaining third our buy price could be anywhere from 11% less to 25% less (the next day) but again the numbers change with time as markets change with time. When I say "markets" I refer not only to spot prices but to the coin market which doesn't always run in tandem with metals prices. Further, ever-changing supply and demand factors also influence prices. Occasionally, but RARELY we may not make an offer if we are overstocked on the item or for some reason demand has suddenly fallen off a cliff. It also matters if you bought the coins from us. Past customers will usually get a better deal and we find over and over that the coins we sold when bought back are more likely to be problem free as we screen them well in the first place.

 

John

[BillJones]

Including the platinum bullion coins in any list of “greatest modern coins” is questionable from my perspective. When I was a dealer I never met a collector who had a numismatic interest in these coins. At one point one of my customers consigned a one ounce platinum piece to me to sell so that he could buy something else. I set the piece in my case and never got a nibble at two shows including one regional show in Boston. Finally I had to sell it to a bullion dealer who was the only party I could find who had any interest in it. Low mintages are the only attraction to these coins from I can see.

 

 

[John Maben]

Again, I don't consider any of the platinum coins in the list to be bullion, or any of the coins at all for that matter. The U.S. Mint did make bullion platinum and these are not them. I don't know how else to say it other than anyone wishing to sell 2006-W or 2008-W burnished 4 coin platinum sets or 2004-W proof singles that are fresh as purchased from the mint I am a buyer at WELL over what the bullion platinum coins trade at, and I will take quantity. But oh yea, good luck finding them...

 

These coins that many consider "common" are not so common. It took me 5 full months to assemble a 50 coin set of 69's and a 50 coin set of 70's which I started on after the list was finalized. The Washington dollars are 66 and 67 since higher grades are impossible to find.

 

FYI, the sets are not for sale and won't be for a while.

 

I had access to my own inventory and national networks of other dealers and it was still challenging but obviously do-able, unlike the top 100 set that is virtually un-doable to assemble.

 

John

[ericj96-migration]

I love you guys. New book or no book many of you guys are the same old group that reject the US Mint products in your generation and miss the good stuff before it matures. You need to reread this article before one makes any generalizations about moderns. Maybe you don't like the 50 coins concept that has been presented but many of the coins present are this generation of series key dates that have much more potential than the material you like to rave about.

 

http://www.numismaticnews.net/article/viewpoint-key-modern-coins-win-profit-race

[delta]

Including the platinum bullion coins in any list of “greatest modern coins” is questionable from my perspective. When I was a dealer I never met a collector who had a numismatic interest in these coins. At one point one of my customers consigned a one ounce platinum piece to me to sell so that he could buy something else. I set the piece in my case and never got a nibble at two shows including one regional show in Boston. Finally I had to sell it to a bullion dealer who was the only party I could find who had any interest in it. Low mintages are the only attraction to these coins from I can see.

 

This anecdotal account is plain inadequate because no details about the single one ounce platinum piece you brought to two shows were provided. Date? Condition? And why would anyone who seeks moderns have looked through your stock at all, when you normally didn't handle those, and disdain and disparage them?

 

In my opinion, platinum coins have a lot going for them, as platinum's a rare precious metal valuable for jewelry and in industry, and the coins aren't ever going to be effectively counterfeited because the weight of the metal is so great, and it's difficult to fabricate. American Platinum Eagles are quite attractive and artistic, form an interesting continuing series of US coins going back to 1997 with various designs and finishes, some have extremely low mintages, and collectors have the substantial bullion value as a backup.

[brg5658]

I love you guys. New book or no book many of you guys are the same old group that reject the US Mint products in your generation and miss the good stuff before it matures. You need to reread this article before one makes any generalizations about moderns. Maybe you don't like the 50 coins concept that has been presented but many of the coins present are this generation of series key dates that have much more potential than the material you like to rave about.

 

http://www.numismaticnews.net/article/viewpoint-key-modern-coins-win-profit-race

 

Eric, I only speak for myself, but I have an observation about your "opinions" and what you seem to espouse in this thread.

 

You seem to think that the only important thing about numismatics is the money to be made, the investment potential, and the comparison of these "portfolios" to other means of investing. Everything I read in the article you linked is "profit, profit, and more profit". Similarly, the new book to be released in about a month seems to focus on the US Mint special issues of precious metal bullion, geared mainly at the "key dates" or those dates which now are going for prices well above melt. Again, I read this as "profit, potential for flipping, and more profit". This is NOT the hobby that I care to take part in.

 

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say that "many of the coins present are this generation of series key dates". What analogy are you making? To what series of coins released in, say, the 1950s are these the "new generation" of series key dates?

 

Furthermore, whose generation are you exactly referring to? You make it sound like we're all curmudgeons hell-bent on defying change. I'm 32, a white collar professional, well educated, and I have absolutely no interest in any of the US Mint products. Why you may ask? Mostly because they are thoughtless designs, and because they simply do not have much numismatic value to me beyond their precious metals. Would you have written this new book if gold were still at prices before the recent 5-year boom? I simply do not understand the target audience for the new "Top 50" book. I am in the hobby for the history, the joy, the camaraderie, a general interest in the coinage process, etc. Again, maybe I'm alone in my philosophy of what it means to be a collector, and an aspiring numismatist.

 

In summary, please don't pigeon hole all collectors into whatever it is you think the hobby should be. Best of luck in your future endeavors, but all of this "matures" and "potential" you talk about in your response above comes across as $$$ and a lack of true interest in the hobby.

 

This will be my last post in this thread.

 

 

[ericj96-migration]

I love you guys. New book or no book many of you guys are the same old group that reject the US Mint products in your generation and miss the good stuff before it matures. You need to reread this article before one makes any generalizations about moderns. Maybe you don't like the 50 coins concept that has been presented but many of the coins present are this generation of series key dates that have much more potential than the material you like to rave about.

 

http://www.numismaticnews.net/article/viewpoint-key-modern-coins-win-profit-race

 

Eric, I only speak for myself, but I have an observation about your "opinions" and what you seem to espouse in this thread. You seem to think that the only important thing about numismatics is the money to be made, the investment potential, and the comparison of these "portfolios" to other means of investing. Everything I read in the article you linked is "profit, profit, and more profit".

 

Answer:

I am a collector first. I started out with mint state Morgans but the problem was that the Morgan series I liked could not be completed because the series were mature and the key dates were so high priced that I was locked out. I came along too late. Same is true of all the classic gold series in high grade.

 

I became a student of coinage maturity cycles and their structures for series issued between 1900 and 1950. Trends showed up in what went on to become great. Things like very high total series populations and excellent relative rarity that flows from it and rejection of type coins by the collectors at the time of their issue tended to make them the issues that ended up the most desirable. Things like Pan Pac Slugs, Matte Gold, 1936 walkers etc that were rejected moderns. If you were a collector in this era and were not willing to buy new issues struck in that lifetime then I think you messed up. Now moving forward I am saying that a great collecting opportunity to buy tomorrows 1916D dimes and 1911D gold is at your door. If you don’t wish to pick them up because you don’t like them that’s fine.

 

 

 

Similarly, the new book to be released in about a month seems to focus on the US Mint special issues of precious metal bullion, geared mainly at the "key dates" or those dates which now are going for prices well above melt. Again, I read this as "profit, potential for flipping, and more profit". This is NOT the hobby that I care to take part in.

 

Answer:

Its long honored advice to buy the key dates of series you wish to finish first so you don’t get "locked out". Anyone that wants to start series that they cannot finish is welcome to do so.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say that "many of the coins present are this generation of series key dates". What analogy are you making? To what series of coins released in, say, the 1950s are these the "new generation" of series key dates?

 

Answer:

I am referring to coinage struck by the US mint over the last 25 years or so that is not clad. ASE, AGE, APE, Silver Dollar Commens etc etc. They are massive good looking series with rapidly expanding collector followings as can be seen from the slabbing rates at NGC and PCGS. The keys are the coins that are very low population relative to the common dates in the series in question. Are you asking me what a key date is?

 

 

 

Furthermore, whose generation are you exactly referring to?

Answer:

Everyone who is alive at this time and can pick up great material while it’s young.

 

 

 

You make it sound like we're all curmudgeons hell-bent on defying change. I'm 32, a white collar professional, well educated, and I have absolutely no interest in any of the US Mint products. Why you may ask? Mostly because they are thoughtless designs, and because they simply do not have much numismatic value to me beyond their precious metals.

 

Answer:

You are welcome to your opinion but that’s all it is because all the demographic growth in the hobby is showing up in moderns issued in the last 25 years........PERIOD!

 

 

 

Would you have written this new book if gold were still at prices before the recent 5-year boom?

 

ANSWER:

ABSOLUTELY BECAUSE THE TOTAL COST OF THE SETS I LIKE WOULD BE CHEAPER! YES!

 

 

 

I simply do not understand the target audience for the new "Top 50" book.

Answer:

Collectors that want to know more about modern US series that are struck on something other than clad material.

 

 

 

I am in the hobby for the history, the joy, the camaraderie, a general interest in the coinage process, etc. Again, maybe I'm alone in my philosophy of what it means to be a collector, and an aspiring numismatist.

Answer:

History is being made now. Just as the depression created the 1929-1933 shocks to the coinage of its day the same thing went on in 2008-2011. Some of today’s moderns will be the great classics of tomorrow for exactly the same reasons and I want to be able to identify them. Further I find enjoyment in the camaraderie and have a general interest in the coinage process too.

 

 

 

In summary, please don't pigeon hole all collectors into whatever it is you think the hobby should be.

Answer:

We are all welcome to collect what we like. If you only want to collect classics issued prior to 1964 that's cool. I on the other hand am putting together sets of these modern silver gold and platinum series and buying the very low mintage material first so I will not get shut out.

 

 

 

Best of luck in your future endeavors, but all of this "matures" and "potential" you talk about in your response above comes across as $$$ and a lack of true interest in the hobby.

Answer:

I have been collecting coins since 1980 and am 44 years old. To suggest that I have a lack of true interest in the hobby is a bit far out. But I guess I have been accused of worse.

 

 

This will be my last post in this thread.

Answer: If moderns offend you or I do I am sorry.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Ahhh... the click to look inside thing is very cool. That was not there until recently.

 

To each his own, trust me if everyone considered these coins "trinket bullion" a major part of the business would not exist. I know of at least 20,000 people that like these exact coins or coins like them, and I am but one dealer.

 

John

John, would you please address my previous point? For ultra-modern coins that you sell to collectors, what percentage would you typically "buy back" the coin for at a later date? I'm not referring to returns or bullion, of course. Basically, if I buy an ultra-modern from you, and next year I decide I'd like to sell it back to you, what kind of spread might I expect?

I will answer for JM: "It depends."

 

It ranges from a substantial profit to the collector to no reasonable offer--just like in classic coins.

 

I personally have found the ultramodern area to have significant upside and very little downside, especially when you buy directly from the Mint or prior to the next round of promotion. Of course, past performance does not guarantee future returns, and your mileage may vary.

 

James- What Dirty Gold Man said plus this:

 

One of the reasons I focus on Silver, Gold, and Platinum modern coins more than the others is because of higher overall value retention vs moderns that are not struck on precious metals. I would estimate that two out of three items bought from us could be sold back for 8% to10% less the NEXT DAY (not the next year) but as time marches on it could be anywhere from a big loss to a big profit due to changing markets. Of the remaining third our buy price could be anywhere from 11% less to 25% less (the next day) but again the numbers change with time as markets change with time. When I say "markets" I refer not only to spot prices but to the coin market which doesn't always run in tandem with metals prices. Further, ever-changing supply and demand factors also influence prices. Occasionally, but RARELY we may not make an offer if we are overstocked on the item or for some reason demand has suddenly fallen off a cliff. It also matters if you bought the coins from us. Past customers will usually get a better deal and we find over and over that the coins we sold when bought back are more likely to be problem free as we screen them well in the first place.

 

John

If I have quite an inventory of ultramoderns to sell (which I do), how do I get hold of you for the purpose of a quote?

[John Maben]

"It seems logical that to me "Popular" would mean just that... e.g. what most people would collect."

 

We can argue the title for sure but it's the content that matters most. Naturally, everyone will have a slightly different idea of what constitutes popular. I went back and reviewed sales for many years then consulted with another dealer who is given credit in the book. Combined the two of us have sold hundreds of millions of dollars in modern coins. From that, the coins in the book represented a major portion of those sales. That to us, equals popular. Not all of them are popular at the moment as what is popular does change but these all certainly have the potential to go in and out of popularity vs fading away.

 

Eric and I agreed on these 50 along with others. It was not easy keeping the list at 50 but we wanted this to be a set that could actually be put together without having to be a millionaire.

 

John

 

[John Maben]

"When I was a dealer I never met a collector who had a numismatic interest in these coins."

 

Bill- I'll let you in on something here. Collectors of moderns for the most part don't go to shows, many don't go to shops. Welcome to the electronic age. Many are doctors, dentists, professors, and many are just the average "Joe". Many that attempt to buy at shows and shops end up disappointed and turn to the internet. Some have been burned by overpaying and figure that out real quick when they find those of us that sell at prices that actually make sense. Remarkably most of those people stay in the hobby from my experience because they actually like the coins that much.There are some very intelligent people that collect moderns, with far more brains than me. Classics are generally more intimidating to most new collectors because they require a greater level of expertise which is not beyond today's modern collector they simply don't want to invest the time. Some do later expand to classics.

 

 

"You (Eric) seem to think that the only important thing about numismatics is the money to be made, the investment potential, and the comparison of these "portfolios" to other means of investing. Everything I read in the article you linked is "profit, profit, and more profit"."

 

VERY important to note here that Eric was responding (in the link he provided) to an article written by someone that labeled moderns as a bad investment. He did not just wake up one day and decide to explain how some moderns may have great potential. He wanted to present his opposing point of view.

 

John

[brg5658]

I simply do not understand the target audience for the new "Top 50" book.

 

Answer:

Collectors that want to know more about modern US series that are struck on something other than clad material.

 

 

Just to be clear, the nickel is NOT struck on "clad material". So I assume you really mean all things struck by the mint that are not in "precious" metals.

 

And, going against my previous statement that "this will be my last post", I will point out that when you say someone "messed up" by not buying the issues in the 1900 to 1950 era, you still assume their main goal was to PROFIT on those issues in the end. That's a pretty big assumption.

 

And, because apparently you didn't read my previous post, I extensively collect moderns and "ultra-moderns"....just not bullion or bullion-like poorly designed US Mint money-makers.

[ericj96-migration]

Just to be clear, the nickel is NOT struck on "clad material". So I assume you really mean all things struck by the mint that are not in "precious" metals.

Answer:

I like Nickels. I think it’s cool that it is the only vestige for real coinage that has the same material content all the way back to the V Nickel.

 

And, going against my previous statement that "this will be my last post", I will point out that when you say someone "messed up" by not buying the issues in the 1900 to 1950 era, you still assume their main goal was to PROFIT on those issues in the end. That's a pretty big assumption.

Answer: No if you passed over matte proof gold Indians, and saints and 1916 quarters you just missed the killer coins that represented some of the greatest coins issued in our short 200 year coinage history. If you take a random survey of 100 collectors at a major show and asked if it was a mistake not to buy the coins listed at 1.5 times face in that era the collectors would tell you that it was a serious missed opportunity. That’s all I am saying.

 

 

And, because apparently you didn't read my previous post, I extensively collect moderns and "ultra-moderns"....just not bullion or bullion-like poorly designed US Mint money-makers.

Answer: Glad to hear that you cast your net broad. And as far as bad design I agree. There are some great and seriously bad designs rolling out of the Mint right now but that’s true all the way back in our history. Some of the commem halves out if the 20s and 30s were just so bad it hurts. Roosevelt and much of the public did not think highly of the Barber issues according to Bowers.

 

[brg5658]

Eric, I appreciate your opinions, but I'm not going to buy a 112 page book of them.

 

All the best,

-Brandon