N

[copper toning]

n

[physics-fan3.14]

More MS-70'd copper. I've never seen a blue woodgrain like that before, it has a very unnatural appearance. Sorry, but I don't like it.

[brg5658]

I like both of them, and they don't look unnatural to me at all. I have seen a LOT of copper with blue toning, and saying that any hint of blue is MS70'd is almost as bad as the original (and silly) comments by our beloved friend ATS that toned Peace Dollars don't exist.

 

Jason, you're entitled to your opinion on these blue coppers, but making blanket statements about blue copper (as you have in a few recent threads) is simply uninformed and irrational. The 1917 looks quite stunning (given the somewhat fuzzy obverse image). Just my 2 cents.

[mkman123]

The coins look great!

[physics-fan3.14]

I like both of them, and they don't look unnatural to me at all. I have seen a LOT of copper with blue toning, and saying that any hint of blue is MS70'd is almost as bad as the original (and silly) comments by our beloved friend ATS that toned Peace Dollars don't exist.

 

Jason, you're entitled to your opinion on these blue coppers, but making blanket statements about blue copper (as you have in a few recent threads) is simply uninformed and irrational. The 1917 looks quite stunning (given the somewhat fuzzy obverse image). Just my 2 cents.

 

You are grossly misinterpreting my statements, brg. No where did I, or would I, ever claim that all blue copper is MS-70'd. I have seen plenty of extremely attractive natural blue copper. I am merely saying that the ones shown in this thread and the other thread by coppertoning are highly suspicious in my opinion, showing characteristics and color that I associate with MS-70 treatment, and I don't like them. I don't want you jumping to conclusions or misinterpreting and stretching my words out of context - so please correct yourself.

[WoodenJefferson]

[brg5658]

You are grossly misinterpreting my statements, brg. No where did I, or would I, ever claim that all blue copper is MS-70'd. I have seen plenty of extremely attractive natural blue copper. I am merely saying that the ones shown in this thread and the other thread by coppertoning are highly suspicious in my opinion, showing characteristics and color that I associate with MS-70 treatment, and I don't like them. I don't want you jumping to conclusions or misinterpreting and stretching my words out of context - so please correct yourself.

 

Copper toning posted 5 coins. They all had some hint of blue toning, but were all graded by NGC or PCGS (or at least the holders looked as such). You abruptly and without any such qualifiers as "probably" or "likely" stated that all 5 posted coins were MS70'd.

 

The facts are this:

 

1) The pictures were decent, but by no means great. They were by no stretch of the imagination good enough to determine if the toning was created by a chemical.

 

2) All 5 were presumably in non-details or Genuine holders (copper_toning knows the answer to this).

 

3) Of the 5 posted, I only thought one looked to be blotchy and possibly questionable. I'm not a copper expert, but the other 4 looked like dozens of others I have seen over the past 20 years that I KNOW were not treated with MS70.

 

I don't see ANYTHING that I need to correct myself on. My only restraint was on not congratulating you for hijacking yet another thread with your "opinions", and by telling everyone how much you don't like their new purchases.

[coinman_23885]

Copper toning posted 5 coins. They all had some hint of blue toning, but were all graded by NGC or PCGS (or at least the holders looked as such).

 

There was more than a hint of blue toning; it consumed at least two of the coins. I still thought the pieces were attractive, but I agree with Physics that the coins look like they had been MS70ed.

 

The facts are this: ...

 

2) All 5 were presumably in non-details or Genuine holders (copper_toning knows the answer to this).

 

PCGS and NGC have both certified coins that have been MS70ed in normal, non details/genuine holders.

[brg5658]

Copper toning posted 5 coins. They all had some hint of blue toning, but were all graded by NGC or PCGS (or at least the holders looked as such).

 

There was more than a hint of blue toning; it consumed at least two of the coins. I still thought the pieces were attractive, but I agree with Physics that the coins look like they had been MS70ed.

 

The facts are this: ...

 

2) All 5 were presumably in non-details or Genuine holders (copper_toning knows the answer to this).

 

PCGS and NGC have both certified coins that have been MS70ed in normal, non details/genuine holders.

 

No offense to either of you, but based on the quality of the images and the fact that at least 3 professional graders saw the coins in hand, I trust their opinions. Maybe a couple of the posted coins were MS70'd...but there is NO way for any of us here to know that from the pictures shown earlier. I'm not saying the TPGs can't be fooled, I'm just saying they actually saw the coins...we didn't.

[MarkFeld]

Copper toning posted 5 coins. They all had some hint of blue toning, but were all graded by NGC or PCGS (or at least the holders looked as such).

 

There was more than a hint of blue toning; it consumed at least two of the coins. I still thought the pieces were attractive, but I agree with Physics that the coins look like they had been MS70ed.

 

The facts are this: ...

 

2) All 5 were presumably in non-details or Genuine holders (copper_toning knows the answer to this).

 

PCGS and NGC have both certified coins that have been MS70ed in normal, non details/genuine holders.

 

No offense to either of you, but based on the quality of the images and the fact that at least 3 professional graders saw the coins in hand, I trust their opinions. Maybe a couple of the posted coins were MS70'd...but there is NO way for any of us here to know that from the pictures shown earlier. I'm not saying the TPGs can't be fooled, I'm just saying they actually saw the coins...we didn't.

 

Even if the coins have been treated with MS70, that doesn't necessarily mean that the grading companies were fooled. It's possible that the graders suspected or believed that MS70 had been used, but still found the coins to be suitable for grading.