1921D Walking Liberty Half What Grade Is It?
0

77 posts in this topic

I am taking it to the only ANA dealer I have here locally just to get an opinion. Depending on what he says I will travel up to Spokane and get another opinion of the coin, or return it to the seller. Thanks everyone for your help.

 

If salt lake city is closer you could take it to former ANA president Bob Campbell at "all about coins " for a second opinion. I hope that's not the former ANA president oldtrader is talking about.

 

Nick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sold the coin as NGC AU details to get it out of inventory and down the road just recently.

 

Early on in my collecting career; I had a similar experience and had to do the same thing at a loss. I've never made that mistake again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sold the coin as NGC AU details to get it out of inventory and down the road just recently.

 

I don't understand this at all. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting or misreading this, but you sold this particular coin in a NGC details holder? This would imply that it is a genuine coin, and I would be absolutely shocked.

Edited by coinman_23885
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Supertooth-Thank you for your knowledge. If the coin comes back from PCGS as not genuine I can return it as the purchase is covered by EBay buyer protection. And their is no time limit on that, the coin was listed by a trusted seller and stated as guaranteed genuine. So to further answer my question you are NOT 100% certain the coin is counterfeit.

 

I'm 100% sure that the coin is not genuine. With this said, if you decide to submit it, you need to submit the coin as soon as it reaches you. I also recommend that you elect the Express service either here ($60 + shipping both ways) or at PCGS ($50 + shipping both ways) to guarantee that you have enough time to file a PayPal/eBay claim. It is my understanding that you have 30 days to file such a claim, but you should verify this for yourself. Good luck.

 

Just be cautious about informal guarantees of take back policies if it does not grade. I had an ex-President of the ANA stiff me on a MS64 high relief Peace dollar on his personal guarantee which was phony as a three dollar bill. It took the requested 5 weeks to get a grade from PCGS and he said it was too long, so get lost, he won't honor it. This was a dealer whom I had given thousands of dollars of business to for cash and he shafted me faster than than he would his dog. Get it in writing for that much money, notarized.

 

Writing is nice; however, the guarantee might not be worth the paper it is written on. Sure you might have a contract, but unless you have viable means to enforce that contract, then you are pretty much out of luck. The original poster probably doesn't have enough knowledge of the law (few do outside of lawyers) to successfully pursue a claim in civil court and the attorney's fees and litigation fees may be more than the total purchase price (and no attorney in their right mind would take a $5k contingency fee case on something like this). Even if you secure a judgment against the seller, this is only half of the battle. You must then enforce the judgment which can often be difficult. The seller may not have any traceable assets that you can seize, and many people are what I call "turnips" because they are essentially judgment proof (remember the saying that you cannot get blood out of a turnip). Even if you do, it could take you a long time to recover as you must initiate other proceedings/court filings (and more $$$$) to place liens or other attachments or to force the sale of the debtor's property. This is the point that is often overlooked by people on the boards: not only must you have a cause of action, but you must have a means of enforcing any judgment.

 

Bottom line: if you want to have a means to reverse the transaction, you have no option but to act now and within the time frame for doing a eBay/PayPal claim or a charge back (if you were wise enough to purchase the coin with a credit card). I know you are probably tired of hearing me saying this (and this will be the last time I say this), but the time to act is NOW. If you don't, you will incur a large financial loss.

 

Coinman is right.

 

I have had many instances which I was awarded a claim against the renters of my housing units and many are judement proof for MANY reasons. I have claims against a handful which will never be paid.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sold the coin as NGC AU details to get it out of inventory and down the road just recently.

 

I don't understand this at all. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting or misreading this, but you sold this particular coin in a NGC details holder? This would imply that it is a genuine coin, and I would be absolutely shocked.

 

I think he's talking about his Peace dollar that he lost money on. Correct me if I'm wrong.......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sold the coin as NGC AU details to get it out of inventory and down the road just recently.

 

I don't understand this at all. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting or misreading this, but you sold this particular coin in a NGC details holder? This would imply that it is a genuine coin, and I would be absolutely shocked.

 

I think he's talking about his Peace dollar that he lost money on. Correct me if I'm wrong.......

 

Thanks for the clarification; I overlooked his post on the last page. It makes sense to me now.

Edited by coinman_23885
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coinman, The Peace dollar had been doctored to be a deep Luden's cough-drop red color which obfuscated the buffer lines that a doctor had used on the coin. Jason saw it after PCGS dip in a details holder. PCGS dipped it without permission and I got suspended by ATS from their boards for sticking up for my rights as a customer and not having my stuff messed with by them without notification. I am not a coin dealer and was an engineer at the time.

 

It was the worst, most confrontational, stupid and petty greed fueled waste of my time and money that I have ever had in this hobby and maybe in my life! I da**ed nearly quit collecting coins because it disturbed me so much that a dealer would cheat a good customer of ten years over this dog of a coin. In fact this is the only direct confrontation with a dealer that I have ever had over any coin, ever. I usually just walk.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright so I decided to just return the coin...my local dealer did not find or mention anything that said counterfeit, however he did say the coin had been dipped and polished. He maintained that if they didn't bag the coin it would get an MS62+-MS63 almost made me want to hold on to it. But I contacted the seller yesterday and got the go ahead to return the coin for a full refund. I had a suspicion that the coin had been polished already but he just confirmed it for me.

Edited by darrincraig1984
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Polished or whizzed coins lose a lot of value without regard to the grade.

I said it looked whizzed in my first post – whizzed is basically the same as polished. As for the authenticity of the coin – based on the comments from Supertooth I would bet it’s a fake as well.

Even if it was genuine they are hard to value when they have been polished. So $4700 for a raw 1921 D that has not been authenticated and has been polished is too much. You were correct to send it back .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Polished or whizzed coins lose a lot of value without regard to the grade.

I said it looked whizzed in my first post – whizzed is basically the same as polished. As for the authenticity of the coin – based on the comments from Supertooth I would bet it’s a fake as well.

Even if it was genuine they are hard to value when they have been polished. So $4700 for a raw 1921 D that has not been authenticated and has been polished is too much. You were correct to send it back .

 

I agree 100%. This is also the sort of coin that would probably throw off some dealers who don't regularly collect the series or see that many examples. When compared to the genuine pieces posted or linked, there is a stark difference. Even if the coin was genuine, I don't see it being worth almost $5,000. The fact that a coin is a "problem coin" reduces the number of buyers interested in the piece. Problem coins are generally difficult to unload even if priced at their net grade levels. With that much polishing/whizzing, the coin would likely net grade AU details, and would be priced liberally in the $3000 range (although I am betting that it would realize a lower price). As I said before, I still think it's a counterfeit and worth little more than its melt value. You made a wise choice to return the coin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

darrincraig-----Am VERY GLAD that you decided to return the piece.

 

Read coinman's comments again. His words speak MUCH truth.

 

A little story might help here. Many, many years ago, I walked into a Baltimore show----gave four gold pieces to the ANACS fellow. He looked at them very quickly under the microscope---just as quickly telling me that two were good and two were bad. But, he WOULD NOT tell me how to tell the difference.

 

Well, I had my son with me that day. And, to teach him how ALMOST ANYONE can get fooled----I immediately walked down the isle and struck up a conversation with an older dealer. After a minute or two, I showed him one of the counterfeit gold pieces. That dealer was about to give me an offer on the piece---but, I stopped him short and told him the TRUTH.

 

I did this that day in order to TEACH MY SON. I do hope that darrincraig and others may have learned a little because of this 1921D Walker. It pays to buy some books---look at a lot of coins---and become as knowledgable as one can be---BEFORE you lay your money out to spend it. TIME and PATIENCE are very much required in this hobby as well. Good luck to all of you in your future Numismatic quests. Bob [supertooth]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it has been polished, it will bodybag. I am also glad that you returned the coin. On key date WLH's in particular, there is a lot of suspect inventory out there. I look at a lot of coins before buying, especially key dates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Busted! When you make up stories like this, it makes things seem even fishier. Why lie to us? Now you just seem like a troll.

 

 

i just started reading this thread for the first time.

 

when i saw that ebay link, i was like wow, why did he even lie about it lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0