1921D Walking Liberty Half What Grade Is It?
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77 posts in this topic

If it sounds too good to be true..........it probably is.

I hate to be negative but the picture flat out looks strange. I saw this and I don't know squat about this series. On top of that, it was bought for a fraction of what is should be worth, given its genuine and problem free.

Again I say, if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.

Sorry that's just my opinion.

I would have taken that 5 grand and bought something SWEET! lol

but I don't have that kind of money to spend on coins.

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If you bought the coin on eBay you should have some recourse. I think your odds are better of winning the lottery than the coin coming back in a graded or even a "details" or "genuine" holder.

 

P.S. Why lie about where you purchased the coin?

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After looking g at coinmans genuine price, its definetly not right. Coinmans has two finger pointing out towards the rim and the OP 's appears to have one finger pointing with the other 3 bending in.........

that's the first thing I noticed.

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Busted! When you make up stories like this, it makes things seem even fishier. Why lie to us? Now you just seem like a troll.

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darrincraig-----First, I will assume that you are an innocent collector----just hunting for what looks like a bargain.

 

As an old Walker collector, and one of the ones that folks on these chat boards go to for Walker opinions, I feel that I must try to help a bit here.

 

IMHO, this coin IS NOT a 1921D Walker. As they say, I'd bet the farm that the coin IS NOT genuine. I won't tell you WHY that I know this. I'll only say that folks on these boards trust me when it comes to the Walker series.

 

If this coin was mine, I'd have it checked out by a independent Walker person---to verify what I say----and then return it to get my money back----however you have to do this under whatever the current Ebay policy is at this time.

 

A coin of this rarity SIMPLY MUST be in an NGC or a PCGS holder "BEFORE" you buy such a coin. To do otherwise, unless you are indeed a Walker expert, is certainly a RISKY situation. Good luck. Bob [supertooth]

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darrincraig-----First, I will assume that you are an innocent collector----just hunting for what looks like a bargain.

 

As an old Walker collector, and one of the ones that folks on these chat boards go to for Walker opinions, I feel that I must try to help a bit here.

 

IMHO, this coin IS NOT a 1921D Walker. As they say, I'd bet the farm that the coin IS NOT genuine. I won't tell you WHY that I know this. I'll only say that folks on these boards trust me when it comes to the Walker series.

 

If this coin was mine, I'd have it checked out by a independent Walker person---to verify what I say----and then return it to get my money back----however you have to do this under whatever the current Ebay policy is at this time.

 

A coin of this rarity SIMPLY MUST be in an NGC or a PCGS holder "BEFORE" you buy such a coin. To do otherwise, unless you are indeed a Walker expert, is certainly a RISKY situation. Good luck. Bob [supertooth]

 

+1

 

Super - I was waiting for you to post you opinion .

Darrin - Supertooth is an expert on this series.

My advice is simple - get your money back now.

 

 

 

 

 

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darrincraig-----First, I will assume that you are an innocent collector----just hunting for what looks like a bargain.

 

 

IMHO, this coin IS NOT a 1921D Walker. As they say, I'd bet the farm that the coin IS NOT genuine. I won't tell you WHY that I know this.

 

?? Why not tell?? We would all like to know. To make the statement and not let him know is some what odd.

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copper toning---In this particular case----a 1921D coin----we are dealing with the year that most folks understand to be the MOST COUNTERFEITED of all the Walker coins. In most circumstances, I am a collector who believes in sharing information. Those folks who know me here on this forum know this to be a fact.

 

But, in this case, IMHO, it is better that the information not be made public. I guess one could say that I am being selfish in this matter. And, maybe they would be correct. But, I don't want to put it out there for the counterfeiter to know. Then he could correct his product. As it stands now, I know more than he does. And, I'd like to keep it that way. Bob [supertooth]

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Supertooth- So just to clarify you are 100% positive this is a counterfeit? I am going to take the coin and have it looked at again, if your right then I guess I will have to start with getting a refund. Any further info would be greatly appreciated.

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I guess that the best answer to your statement would be this comment from me:

 

I wouldn't buy this coin as a 21D even if the price was just bullion value of silver. But, you need to be sure in your own mind. Therefore, you need an expert opinion other than just mine. It would be nice if you could send it to either NGC or PCGS so that their graders could see it. Naturally, this takes time and I don't know as that you would have this much time allowed---before you could send the coin back to get a return.

 

I do encourage you to make yourself certain. And, the only way to do that is to get to someone else who knows the Walker series. Mostly, that would be the third party grading service folks. Trouble is that, if I am correct, they will also verify this fact----but will NOT tell you the why either. They will just NOT certify the coin. In the meantime, you could be out your purchase price---as the seller might refuse to accept a return because toooo much time has elapsed since your purchase.

 

Maybe you could come to an agreement with the seller to allow you the time to send it to either NGC or PCGS?? But that would be a big risk on your part IMHO. To risk almost 5K is quite the chance IMHO. Remember this----If I am correct, this coin is VIRTUALLY WORTHLESS----except as a conversation piece. Naturally, as in ALL coin events----THE CHOICE IS YOURS. As I said, good luck. Bob [supertooth]

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I might add just the following statement. If this coin was sent to either NGC or to PCGS, and it came back in a NO PROBLEM slab----I'd be the most shocked Walker collector that you could ever imagine. There's always a chance that I could be wrong but I wouldn't buy this piece in any event. Bob [supertooth]

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Supertooth-Thank you for your knowledge. If the coin comes back from PCGS as not genuine I can return it as the purchase is covered by EBay buyer protection. And their is no time limit on that, the coin was listed by a trusted seller and stated as guaranteed genuine. So to further answer my question you are NOT 100% certain the coin is counterfeit.

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Supertooth-Thank you for your knowledge. If the coin comes back from PCGS as not genuine I can return it as the purchase is covered by EBay buyer protection. And their is no time limit on that, the coin was listed by a trusted seller and stated as guaranteed genuine. So to further answer my question you are NOT 100% certain the coin is counterfeit.

 

I'm 100% sure that the coin is not genuine. With this said, if you decide to submit it, you need to submit the coin as soon as it reaches you. I also recommend that you elect the Express service either here ($60 + shipping both ways) or at PCGS ($50 + shipping both ways) to guarantee that you have enough time to file a PayPal/eBay claim. It is my understanding that you have 30 days to file such a claim, but you should verify this for yourself. Good luck.

 

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darrincraig----- Let me first say that I've always tried to help ALL the folks here. My whole purpose was always to try and help to educate. My registry sets were formed with that purpose in mind. I entered this post----because I didn't like the coin----and because I "SIMPLY HATE" to see folks throw their money away.

 

This seller may or may not know all there is to know about this 1921D coin. I'm only saying that the coin needs to go to either NGC or PCGS. At that point, you will understand better WHY we do not like the piece.

 

Now, as to the comment about 100% sure. I don't think that pictures EVER tell the whole story. Most times, on these chat boards, I encourage guys and gals to be CAREFUL when they judge a coin JUST BY PICTURES.

 

So, I'll just say that I'm 99.999999 to infinity sure. And, to follow that up. I'd be absolutely shocked if it came back as being OK as I said before. Naturally, this is only MY OPINION----everybody is entitled to a subjective opinion. Like coinman says----send it in to PCGS quick and see what happens. Good luck. Bob [supertooth]

Edited by supertooth
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I avoided this thread because it seemed to have a weird "feel" to it. Without getting dragged into any controversy, I'll just state that the instant I saw the images, I thought the coin was either a fake or altered.

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I am going to try and get some better photos of the coin...and put them on here. Now that I have looked really closely at the photos I can see what everyone is talking about. Let me try that I will see if I can have it done by the end of the day.

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The new photo does not help your case. Super tooth is the resident expert on this series, other knowledgeable people here also had issues with the coin. There is a certain diagnostic that was obvious to him which made him conclude the coin was a fake. I do not know this diagnostic and I respect his reason for not publishing it here in an open forum. Apparently you don’t believe us , considering that see if you can get the seller to allow you to send the coin in for authentication with a guarantee of a refund if it comes back not genuine.

If he declines – that is a big red flag. If he approves it send it in to NGC or PCGS immediately. You could save yourself some time if you can find a local respected ANA member dealer to authenticate it.

Edited by Mark T
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darrincraig--- I'm sorry, but those pictures are of NO VALUE.

 

I appreciate MarkT's comments. And, certainly you can tell that all of us simply do not like the coin. I've talked to a couple of these folks by PM---and the consensus of opinion is that, they knew that something was wrong as soon as they viewed the piece.

 

Simply put, we all want you to send the coin to either NGC or to PCGS----IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THE PIECE. That way----ONE WAY OR THE OTHER---you will get an opinion of more than one grader----who can view the coin IN HAND.

 

Once two or three of them see the coin, you likely will get an accurate assessment. Then you can be pretty sure that what they say is PRETTY CLOSE TO THE TRUTH about the coin. Honestly, this is the MOST SENSIBLE thing to do----and exactly what I and the others have been recommending you to do---ALL ALONG. Naturally, it is ALWAYS YOUR CHOICE. But, if I had spent 4750 on a coin, I surely wouldn't worry about another hundred to find out THE TRUTH.

 

We here on these chat boards offer our best guesses and opinions. Every series has guys that are better at it than others. But, "ALWAYS" here at the NGC chat boards, we try to be as accurate as possible. But, our opinions mean only a subjective opinion from pictures. Sending to NGC or PCGS----gets you FAR MORE for what, in this case, is VERY LITTLE money.

 

Make arrangements with the seller if you really want the coin. Send the package to the TPG service----and BEGIN THE WAIT. If it comes back to your satisfaction, then keep it. If it comes back BAD, return it for a refund. Keeping it without being sure----IS "NOT" a GOOD OPTION IMHO. Bob [supertooth]

 

P.S. If we are all wrong, I think that ALL OF US would be glad for you.

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Supertooth-Thank you for your knowledge. If the coin comes back from PCGS as not genuine I can return it as the purchase is covered by EBay buyer protection. And their is no time limit on that, the coin was listed by a trusted seller and stated as guaranteed genuine. So to further answer my question you are NOT 100% certain the coin is counterfeit.

 

I'm 100% sure that the coin is not genuine. With this said, if you decide to submit it, you need to submit the coin as soon as it reaches you. I also recommend that you elect the Express service either here ($60 + shipping both ways) or at PCGS ($50 + shipping both ways) to guarantee that you have enough time to file a PayPal/eBay claim. It is my understanding that you have 30 days to file such a claim, but you should verify this for yourself. Good luck.

 

Just be cautious about informal guarantees of take back policies if it does not grade. I had an ex-President of the ANA stiff me on a MS64 high relief Peace dollar on his personal guarantee which was phony as a three dollar bill. It took the requested 5 weeks to get a grade from PCGS and he said it was too long, so get lost, he won't honor it. This was a dealer whom I had given thousands of dollars of business to for cash and he shafted me faster than than he would his dog. Get it in writing for that much money, notarized.

Edited by Oldtrader3
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Supertooth-Thank you for your knowledge. If the coin comes back from PCGS as not genuine I can return it as the purchase is covered by EBay buyer protection. And their is no time limit on that, the coin was listed by a trusted seller and stated as guaranteed genuine. So to further answer my question you are NOT 100% certain the coin is counterfeit.

 

I'm 100% sure that the coin is not genuine. With this said, if you decide to submit it, you need to submit the coin as soon as it reaches you. I also recommend that you elect the Express service either here ($60 + shipping both ways) or at PCGS ($50 + shipping both ways) to guarantee that you have enough time to file a PayPal/eBay claim. It is my understanding that you have 30 days to file such a claim, but you should verify this for yourself. Good luck.

 

Just be cautious about informal guarantees of take back policies if it does not grade. I had an ex-President of the ANA stiff me on a MS64 high relief Peace dollar on his personal guarantee which was phony as a three dollar bill. It took the requested 5 weeks to get a grade from PCGS and he said it was too long, so get lost, he won't honor it. This was a dealer whom I had given thousands of dollars of business to for cash and he shafted me faster than than he would his dog. Get it in writing for that much money, notarized.

 

Writing is nice; however, the guarantee might not be worth the paper it is written on. Sure you might have a contract, but unless you have viable means to enforce that contract, then you are pretty much out of luck. The original poster probably doesn't have enough knowledge of the law (few do outside of lawyers) to successfully pursue a claim in civil court and the attorney's fees and litigation fees may be more than the total purchase price (and no attorney in their right mind would take a $5k contingency fee case on something like this). Even if you secure a judgment against the seller, this is only half of the battle. You must then enforce the judgment which can often be difficult. The seller may not have any traceable assets that you can seize, and many people are what I call "turnips" because they are essentially judgment proof (remember the saying that you cannot get blood out of a turnip). Even if you do, it could take you a long time to recover as you must initiate other proceedings/court filings (and more $$$$) to place liens or other attachments or to force the sale of the debtor's property. This is the point that is often overlooked by people on the boards: not only must you have a cause of action, but you must have a means of enforcing any judgment.

 

Bottom line: if you want to have a means to reverse the transaction, you have no option but to act now and within the time frame for doing a eBay/PayPal claim or a charge back (if you were wise enough to purchase the coin with a credit card). I know you are probably tired of hearing me saying this (and this will be the last time I say this), but the time to act is NOW. If you don't, you will incur a large financial loss.

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I am taking it to the only ANA dealer I have here locally just to get an opinion. Depending on what he says I will travel up to Spokane and get another opinion of the coin, or return it to the seller. Thanks everyone for your help.

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Coinman, I surely have never done business this way again with purchasing a coin. I used to have a metal box containing the 3 court judgements that I have obtained for damages during my 70 years on this earth. I threw the entire boodle away as being uncollectible and worthless a long time ago.

 

Since that instance, I have been much less inclined to accept a raw coin from anyone, unless I really like the coin as well as the dealer, and then I will not come back on him because we agreed beforehand.

 

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