PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback

[brokencompass]

There is a lot of buzz on the registry with many people leaving the NGC registry due to NGC's decision to not allow PCGS coins in the registry. I would like to start this post so people on the board are able to offer constructive feedback about the problem to NGC. I am sure NGC is worried about this issue and would consider this feedback.

 

Here's my opinion....

 

NGC has allowed PCGS coins in the past, it is way too much of a hazzle for people who have relied on NGC's broad-mindedness. When I first heard that NGC allowed PCGS coins, I was actually felt NGC was confident enough to be the better TPG. It is a big hazzle for people who have relied on NGC's previous policies.

 

But I do see NGC's problems too. Since they allow PCGS coins, everyone would choose to get their coins graded by PCGS so they can register their coins in both PCGS as well as NGC registries.

 

I think the best way would be to allow only registry sets with atleast 60% NGC coins as a ranking registry set. Every year this number could be increased by 10%. This number could gradually move up to 90% where it should be allowed to rest. This gives enough time for users to adapt to NGC's strategy change and still allow people having a few PCGS coins to still use their coins in the registry without having to cross over. Win-Win.

 

I have always considered NGC as the top TPG, I really hope NGC does something about it.

[Chris1976]

My thoughts are that if they did do a 10% increase as stated above then NGC would be back in the same boat with people being upset that they have to remove and replace a certian number of coins. If NGC were to adopt the 90% NGC coin to 10% PCGS coin there would still be the same complaints. There really is no win/win to this as there would still be upset members that would threaten to take their business elsewhere. Over and over again in the postings on this forum from those who have been the most verbal (repeating the same statements in 3 or more posts) have basically said the only reason they had their coins in PCGS holders is due to increasing its value. But I feel its mostly due to the idea that they can enter the coins in two different registrys with hopes of being awarded more than once for each set of their coins.

 

A policy such as this that NGC is implementing will have both negative and positive feedback as no matter what they do, they cant make everyone happy all the time. Unfortunately this type of change would be rough to come to a compramise on as there would be the same complaints no matter which direction they take aside from keeping the older policy in place.

 

Some members here feel that the same thing will happen to the US coin registry as well, I dont have an issue with that since it is NGC's registry, they are the ones issuing the awards, and it would make sense to me that sets containing NGC certified coins only should be the ones that are eligable for the awards. Otherwise it would be like expecting General Motors to issue an award for best car design to an engineer at Ford.

 

What NGC could do to ease the pain of some of the registry users that are being affected by this change would be to determine which of the PCGS varieties match up to those that NGC uses and then reduce the registry points listing by a single point for each grade level for PCGS coins. That way those who do have full NGC sets will have earned the chance for the registry award for that category as it should be.

 

I know others may or may not agree with anything I have said and thats their choice as these are my opinions and not theirs.

[nemo656]

SPIN! SPIN! SPIN!

 

It's all about money period! NGC wants you to crossover your coins if you want to participate in the NGC registry. They could care less about the registry itself and what it COULD be. They talk about making the registry more meaningful and pure, HOGWASH! Be truthful NGC, people can see right though your SPIN!

 

You want my constructive comment? Eliminate the registry altogether.

 

You say WHAT? Eliminate the registry? Yes. NGC could save so much money on Bandwidth and employing the people needed to maintain the registry.

 

WHY? The NGC registry is a joke, and the NGC registry awards are a joke. The NGC registry is simply a collection of certification numbers collected in one place. I've stated this in the past and I'll say it again.

 

The NGC registry COULD be a useful tool for collectors, that is if it includes PCGS, "AND" and this is a big "AND" they required every entry in the registry to have a picture and a description of the coin entered. No picture? If you have no picture you could enter the coin but it will not be eligible for any award or any points.

 

I ask you, all of you, WHAT IS THE POINT? What's the point of a registry of coins if you can't see or learn anything about them? As it is now the registry is just a huge collection of USELESS information and to top that off NGC gives awards for this USELESS information.

 

I can not speak about the US side of the registry because I only have Newfoundland coins in my registry sets. I and a tiny handful of others have taken the time to include photos (good photos I might add) and descriptions of Newfoundland registry entries. If you want to learn about Newfoundland coins, if you have never seen a Newfoundland coin, if you want to compare grades of a Newfoundland coin you can find that information in the NGC Newfoundland Registry because of me and a tiny handful of others. (for now that is)

 

Nothing galls me more that to see NGC give a top honors award to a Newfoundland registry set that contains NOT ONE PHOTO or DESCRIPTION. Again, WHATS THE POINT? Those sets are simply a collection of certification numbers, and a total waste of space in the registry.

 

I also said this in another thread, if NGC goes through with the removal of PCGS coins from the registry I will pull all my Newfoundland sets and there will be almost NOTHING to see if someone want to research a Newfoundland coin.

 

The other day after posting the above statement in another thread I did a search of the registry just to back up my claim. I searched for Newfoundland and then looked at how many OTHERS had pictures added to their registry entries. It was sad, very sad. My statement holds true in that area of the registry. I and a tiny handful of others have pictures and descriptions. And it will be true, once I pull my sets there will be almost nothing to look at in the Newfoundland series of coins.

 

Just to be clear I could care less about points and awards I collect my coins for the love of my heritage (My grandpa was born and raised in Newfoundland) for the love of history and numismatics. I love the coin not the holder.

 

So I don't know if this post could be called constructive criticism or not but I thought I would share my feelings again.

 

Thanks

Have a great day

Jim

[JCM-Houston]

Over and over again in the postings on this forum from those who have been the most verbal (repeating the same statements in 3 or more posts) have basically said the only reason they had their coins in PCGS holders is due to increasing its value.

 

In my case about 90% of my coins were in NGC holders. I was a paid member only at NGC and gave them all my slabbing business whcih ranged from 10-35 coins per year. I never had any sets in the PCGS registry. I had just submitted 6 coins for world standard and 6 coins for world economy grading at the NYINC show, and have another 14 or so (another mixed standard and economy group) that will be ready to go for grading in February.

 

The reason that I selected NGC was that I collect coins and not plastic. NGC was good enough to allow the few PCGS coins I had into the registry and not try to force me to pay for crossing like PCGS does. Because of this, and what I percieved as a better relationship with customers, I chose to give them my money rather than PCGS.

 

Even though it's only about 10% of my slabed coins, and in some cases only 1 coin in a completed set, it's about principle. In December they took my money for another years membership, in early January they took my money for another submission, then they change the rules.

 

No consultation or discussions with their customers, just do it my way or hit the highway. At least on the PCGS side you always knew they were arrogant, it was part of their marketing spiel.

 

As stated by others, it's their site and they can do what they want. But it's my money and I can vote with my wallet, my wallet chooses not to reward companies that treat their customers like this.

[Schatzy]

The reason that I selected NGC was that I collect coins and not plastic.

 

In December they took my money for another years membership, in early January they took my money for another submission, then they change the rules.

 

 

You still have the coins so I don't see the problem.

How do you know that they were even thinking of changing the world registry in December?

 

 

[TwoKopeiki]

 

You still have the coins so I don't see the problem.

How do you know that they were even thinking of changing the world registry in December?

 

 

Because NGC is a business and decisions like these take time to develop. Afterall, this idea would need to have a benefit statement, perhaps even a business case that would outline potential revenue increase and take in consideration revenue loss due to some attrition.

[gpnyc]

Why doesn't NGC just offer a steep discount on crossing over PCGS coins for a limited time. Could be limited to coins listed in the NGC registry as of a certain cutoff date (12/31/11?)

 

This would prove to all that this isn't a money grab... which I don't believe it is, regardless of the baseless assertions being made by many (justifiably) angry posters.

 

I know this would be a burden on NGC and overall turnaround times will suffer but it seems like the right thing to do and in the long-run NGC will be better off.

[Schatzy]

Here is a statement posted on another thread regarding the topic at hand.

 

There are several reasons for excluding PCGS coins from World Registry Sets. Unlike United States coins, there are hundreds of thousands of World types, and NGC and PCGS often use different terminology and attributions. It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences.

 

Registry users with PCGS coins have to wait for the coin to be approved to add it to a set, and the approval process can be difficult, if not impossible, for some World coins when a PCGS-graded coin's attributes do not match those of an NGC-graded coin. The process is very straightforward for US coins, but for World coins this is just not the case.

 

After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it. It's a change that will make the Registry experience better for many people and will remove coins from relatively few sets.

 

There are no plans to do something like this for US coins. The changes will permit us to expand and enhance the NGC Registry for World coins, and there is not a similar concern for US coins.

 

Edited to add: Custom sets will also not be affected.

 

 

If this change was truly about money they would have hit the us coins also.

 

 

[TwoKopeiki]

Here is a statement posted on another thread regarding the topic at hand.

 

There are several reasons for excluding PCGS coins from World Registry Sets. Unlike United States coins, there are hundreds of thousands of World types, and NGC and PCGS often use different terminology and attributions. It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences.

 

Registry users with PCGS coins have to wait for the coin to be approved to add it to a set, and the approval process can be difficult, if not impossible, for some World coins when a PCGS-graded coin's attributes do not match those of an NGC-graded coin. The process is very straightforward for US coins, but for World coins this is just not the case.

 

After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it. It's a change that will make the Registry experience better for many people and will remove coins from relatively few sets.

 

There are no plans to do something like this for US coins. The changes will permit us to expand and enhance the NGC Registry for World coins, and there is not a similar concern for US coins.

 

Edited to add: Custom sets will also not be affected.

 

 

If this change was truly about money they would have hit the us coins also.

 

 

Not necessarily. As I've mentioned before, there are always two sides of the ledger. The loss in revenue from world collectors that will no longer use the registry or even NGC services altogether is probably not that great and incremental revenue from cross-overs and long-term business probably easily makes it worth it. I don't have access to NGC data to say either way, but it might be a different picture when it comes to US coins.

 

My primary concern was not that it was done at all, since it actually might make sense for the company in the long run, but how it was done .

 

 

[JCM-Houston]

How do you know that they were even thinking of changing the world registry in December?

 

I'm just guessing they would not make such a major decision to the registry without considerable internal discussion, but of course I could be wrong. Maybe someone just woke up last week and sent out the notice.

[nemo656]

How do you know that they were even thinking of changing the world registry in December?

 

I'm just guessing they would not make such a major decision to the registry without considerable internal discussion, but of course I could be wrong. Maybe someone just woke up last week and sent out the notice.

 

I find the thinking, guessing, and all the speculation on the part of the users of these forums interesting, but does NGC? Do you think they are even reading the forums? Why is there no official response to all this chatter? The lack of response on NGC's part is telling.

 

NGC does not appear to me to care one way or the other what we think. It never ceases to amaze me how a company can make major changes, which obviously alienates their clients, and be so unresponsive to the comments, suggestions, and sheer outrage being posted.

 

Is it arrogance? Is it lack of leadership? Could it be plain apathy on the director’s part of NGC? I have so many questions and just so few answers and I’m angry that there is no response to all the comments.

 

I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that NGC would alienate the people that purchase theirs services.

 

I can’t help but think that there was a meeting of NGC folks and someone put their hand up and said “What can we do for our loyal customers to celebrate our 25th anniversary?” Then someone put their hand up and said “I know, we can remove PCGS coins from the registry, loyal users will just love it!” Someone else piped up and said “While were at it let’s change the recipe for Coke and Charge ATM users for each transaction” The chairman hit his gavel and said “Motion carried and now lets vote ourselves a raise and call it a day.” Meeting adjourned.

 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…..

 

Have a great day

Jim

 

[VDB Coins]

How do you know that they were even thinking of changing the world registry in December?

 

I'm just guessing they would not make such a major decision to the registry without considerable internal discussion, but of course I could be wrong. Maybe someone just woke up last week and sent out the notice.

 

I find the thinking, guessing, and all the speculation on the part of the users of these forums interesting, but does NGC? Do you think they are even reading the forums? Why is there no official response to all this chatter? The lack of response on NGC's part is telling.

 

NGC does not appear to me to care one way or the other what we think. It never ceases to amaze me how a company can make major changes, which obviously alienates their clients, and be so unresponsive to the comments, suggestions, and sheer outrage being posted.

 

Is it arrogance? Is it lack of leadership? Could it be plain apathy on the director’s part of NGC? I have so many questions and just so few answers and I’m angry that there is no response to all the comments.

 

I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that NGC would alienate the people that purchase theirs services.

 

I can’t help but think that there was a meeting of NGC folks and someone put their hand up and said “What can we do for our loyal customers to celebrate our 25th anniversary?” Then someone put their hand up and said “I know, we can remove PCGS coins from the registry, loyal users will just love it!” Someone else piped up and said “While were at it let’s change the recipe for Coke and Charge ATM users for each transaction” The chairman hit his gavel and said “Motion carried and now lets vote ourselves a raise and call it a day.” Meeting adjourned.

 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…..

 

Have a great day

Jim

 

Well said!

[brokencompass]

! That's entertaining but let's please keep this thread limited to giving a constructive feedback to NGC about ways they can realize their vision without making it too difficult for us collectors

[JCM-Houston]

That's entertaining but let's please keep this thread limited to giving a constructive feedback to NGC about ways they can realize their vision without making it too difficult for us collectors

 

I think that ship has sailed, it is really quite obvious from their complete lack of attention to any of the complaints that they honestly don't care and they are just waiting for us all to go away.

 

They got our money, now tough luck, if you don't like the new rules just move along. I have to say, I run a small engineering company and if I ever found out any of my employees treated prospective customers this way they would be fired immediately, I wouldn't even ask for an explanation. So I can only asume it comes from the top, ignore the troublemakers (aka former customers) and they will leave soon enough.

[matthewmetcalfe-migration]

About two years ago I picked back up collecting. I looked at both NGC and PCGS sites for membership but could only choose 1. I chose NGC because they allowed registries from both graders whereas PCGS was restricted to their own.

 

I've enjoyed building out registries on the site but the bottom line (for me) is that I have to look at both graders to fill slots in my sets. There just seem to be more PCGS coins available on the market for the world sets I'm working on.

 

Recently I've been picking up more non-slabbed coins with the intention of sending them off for grading. What I realized was that it would cost quite a bit to grade these coins and that's money that could be (in my opinion) better spent on more coins.

 

The move to NGC only world sets reaffirms that I've made the right decision for myself. If I find a good NGC slabbed world coin I'll certainly grab it. Just like I do with a PCGS coin. I'm not going to stick with one grader just so I can have my coins in a registry and I'm not interested in building two registries. I tried that briefly and it's a mess.

 

It took maybe two days for a PCGS coin to get added to my NGC registries. I'm not subscribing to the difficulties between the two. As for why they didn't do US coins as well, I think that would have caused a mass exodus.

 

I think they made a bad decision but it's their company and they can do what they wish. I was on the fence about renewing already because i'm finding non-slabbed coins just as rewarding. I'm glad I held off now.

[Spencer Collection]

Schatzy, your arguments for removal of PCGS world coins from the NGC registry sets sounds like you must be an NGC company man/woman. The reasons you set forth are spurious and make no sense. Believe what you like, publish what you must, but this is about money, pure and simple.

See you over at PCGS.

[Schatzy]

Schatzy, your arguments for removal of PCGS world coins from the NGC registry sets sounds like you must be an NGC company man/woman. The reasons you set forth are spurious and make no sense. Believe what you like, publish what you must, but this is about money, pure and simple.

See you over at PCGS.

 

I collect the coin!! (thumbs u

 

Maybe you should look at some of my sets since I have many PCGS coins.

 

Here is one graded by PCGS in my collection!!

[Schatzy]

Schatzy, your arguments for removal of PCGS world coins from the NGC registry sets sounds like you must be an NGC company man/woman. The reasons you set forth are spurious and make no sense. Believe what you like, publish what you must, but this is about money, pure and simple.

See you over at PCGS.

 

Here is also one reason I quit using PCGS.

 

I bought this coin spot free from Heritage. Less than 2 years later it developed spots.

I sent it to PCGS for spot review. PCGS did nothing and sent the coin back to me.

They gave me no communication as to why?? So needless to say I quit using them.

Here is the coin in question.

 

[Spencer Collection]

That can happen to any coin, in any holder. This also happens if someone dipped or treated the coin prior to sending it in......

I had a pcgs experience, I purchased a zinc us penny in a 67 holder, a year later it corroded on the reverse.....I purchased it for $60 originally, I sent it in to pcgs for review, they sent me the coin back out of the holder, along with a check for $160.00, a $100 profit. PCGS is a superior company and I am happy with them. I have not had a similar experience with NGC, so I cannot comment if they would have treated me as well as PCGS treated me.

[Schatzy]

That can happen to any coin, in any holder. This also happens if someone dipped or treated the coin prior to sending it in......

I had a pcgs experience, I purchased a zinc us penny in a 67 holder, a year later it corroded on the reverse.....I purchased it for $60 originally, I sent it in to pcgs for review, they sent me the coin back out of the holder, along with a check for $160.00, a $100 profit. PCGS is a superior company and I am happy with them. I have not had a similar experience with NGC, so I cannot comment if they would have treated me as well as PCGS treated me.

 

PCGS gave me zero communication so I see no reason to further use them.

I sold the coin on ebay and moved on!!

 

[Kenneth F]

PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback... Not one bit of constructive feedback. This is just one of dozens of anger packed threads. I understand the anger that this purge has caused, I do. But what I dont understand is why everybody must start a seperate threads about this topic! Here is what I have seen over the last few days:

 

1. People are calling the registry a "joke", but yet they complain that their coins were yanked out of the registry.. so now its a joke?

 

2. People call the registry awards a "joke", because they are no longer #1.

 

3. People are saying that they are leaving NGC and going to PCGS, wont that just put you in the same situation as here? They dont allow NGC coins! If you entire set is PCGS, you are good.. but why are you here???

 

4. Starting a thread saying "Screw NGC, Im leaving" isnt going to solve anything. Starting a thread to reply to a "Screw NGC, Im leaving" is even dumber. Folks are starting to sound like the OCCUPY movement. Whats next, OCCUPY NGC???

 

5. People started to complain about this whole situation but in the same breath state that we collect coins, not the slabs.. NGC stated that PCGS coins are still good in Custom Sets.

 

Hey, bottom line.. it was a decision from the guy who runs this business, deal with it. If you dont like it, the door is over there (really pains me to say that because there are TONS of great folks here). Its a business decision that we will NEVER understand or know because we are not (major) SHARE HOLDERS. If you choose to leave, that is your choice. If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, send a post card. I dont like to see anybody leave, but hey.. you are the master of your own destiny... right?

 

This is a great hobby.. great site.. filled with GREAT people. This set back is just another brick in the wall, is it not? You all have great collections that keep guys like me learning. Why let this be the breaking point? Why pack up the camp and bug out? Is this the solution to the problem at hand?

[Schatzy]

PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback... Not one bit of constructive feedback. This is just one of dozens of anger packed threads. I understand the anger that this purge has caused, I do. But what I dont understand is why everybody must start a seperate threads about this topic! Here is what I have seen over the last few days:

 

1. People are calling the registry a "joke", but yet they complain that their coins were yanked out of the registry.. so now its a joke?

 

2. People call the registry awards a "joke", because they are no longer #1.

 

3. People are saying that they are leaving NGC and going to PCGS, wont that just put you in the same situation as here? They dont allow NGC coins! If you entire set is PCGS, you are good.. but why are you here???

 

4. Starting a thread saying "Screw NGC, Im leaving" isnt going to solve anything. Starting a thread to reply to a "Screw NGC, Im leaving" is even dumber. Folks are starting to sound like the OCCUPY movement. Whats next, OCCUPY NGC???

 

5. People started to complain about this whole situation but in the same breath state that we collect coins, not the slabs.. NGC stated that PCGS coins are still good in Custom Sets.

 

Hey, bottom line.. it was a decision from the guy who runs this business, deal with it. If you dont like it, the door is over there (really pains me to say that because there are TONS of great folks here). Its a business decision that we will NEVER understand or know because we are not (major) SHARE HOLDERS. If you choose to leave, that is your choice. If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, send a post card. I dont like to see anybody leave, but hey.. you are the master of your own destiny... right?

 

This is a great hobby.. great site.. filled with GREAT people. This set back is just another brick in the wall, is it not? You all have great collections that keep guys like me learning. Why let this be the breaking point? Why pack up the camp and bug out? Is this the solution to the problem at hand?

 

[$ilverHawk]

Please consider the reasons you have for collecting coins.I believe you will find that it has absolutely nothing to do with the temporary slab that contains the coin. Yes, there are some market benefits for having a coin in a TPG holder, but that only applies if you are looking to sell the coin in the open market or if you need a verification on your grade of a coin.(Reference hundreds to thousands of posts questioning the TPG grade applied to a specific coin). But, when looking to spend your money the bottom line is the coin, in a 2 x 2 or in a TPG slab.

 

TPG s are market driven, they seek to return a profit, it has nothing to do with numismatics, it has nothing to do with collecting. It's a business model, pure and simple.

 

Play the game by your rules. If it benefits you to purchase coins in a specific TPG slab do it. If the slab or a raw coin grabs you, go for it. Just enjoy the collecting experience and don't let TPG s get in the way.

 

Full disclosure--all of my Registry Sets have been deleted. I will continue to participate in the Collectors Society and enjoy the knowledge and insights of my fellow collectors. That is why I'm here---to learn and grow in this wonderful experience of collecting.

 

Carl

[Kenneth F]

$ilverHawk: SPOT ON!

[Spencer Collection]

Kenneth, get some rest.

[lehigh96]

PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback... Not one bit of constructive feedback. This is just one of dozens of anger packed threads. I understand the anger that this purge has caused, I do. But what I dont understand is why everybody must start a seperate threads about this topic! Here is what I have seen over the last few days:

 

1. People are calling the registry a "joke", but yet they complain that their coins were yanked out of the registry.. so now its a joke?

 

2. People call the registry awards a "joke", because they are no longer #1.

 

3. People are saying that they are leaving NGC and going to PCGS, wont that just put you in the same situation as here? They dont allow NGC coins! If you entire set is PCGS, you are good.. but why are you here???

 

4. Starting a thread saying "Screw NGC, Im leaving" isnt going to solve anything. Starting a thread to reply to a "Screw NGC, Im leaving" is even dumber. Folks are starting to sound like the OCCUPY movement. Whats next, OCCUPY NGC???

 

5. People started to complain about this whole situation but in the same breath state that we collect coins, not the slabs.. NGC stated that PCGS coins are still good in Custom Sets.

 

Hey, bottom line.. it was a decision from the guy who runs this business, deal with it. If you dont like it, the door is over there (really pains me to say that because there are TONS of great folks here). Its a business decision that we will NEVER understand or know because we are not (major) SHARE HOLDERS. If you choose to leave, that is your choice. If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, send a post card. I dont like to see anybody leave, but hey.. you are the master of your own destiny... right?

 

This is a great hobby.. great site.. filled with GREAT people. This set back is just another brick in the wall, is it not? You all have great collections that keep guys like me learning. Why let this be the breaking point? Why pack up the camp and bug out? Is this the solution to the problem at hand?

 

+1

[Spencer Collection]

Virtually everything you wrote above, for example the use of the word "joke", or any negative inappropriate dirty word before "NGC" was not done by me. You say people are saying these things, but I only see you using this negative language. You should be banned.

 

[Kenneth F]

@lawjudge: What are you talking about? I should be banned? For what? I didnt say anything about NGC or the registry. I made a statement about what I was reading all over the site. I never stated that YOU said anything. Read my post again. You will see that I used the term "PEOPLE". Stop twisting my words.

[Lablover]

PCGS is a superior company and I am happy with them. I have not had a similar experience with NGC

 

And yet, NGC is still letting you post here...

[CSdot]

While I will be the first to admit that the extensive discussions related to this change have diminished my enjoyment of collecting and registering TPG coins (and I collect both NGC and PCGS slabbed US coins), does anyone have a reason for believing that all non NGC slabbed coins will be removed from the US coin registry sets OTHER THAN the recent change that occurred with the foreign coins?