BIG dissappointment for me with NGC registry awards
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Jerseycat10..For someone who has no coins in their collection, u would never understand... I take serious pride ,comment and love of this hobby. This is something u have no idea .. u cant comprehend the sacrifice a lot of ppl in here make to get great coins

 

I may not 'have any coins' in my collection in your eyes, but I collect with integrity and within my means, without throwing others under the bus along the way.

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Holy cow.. I understand ones frustration but this is getting out of control. Winning is the luck of the draw. If the judges like a set, they award it. It has nothing to do with "knowing somebody". You have to be kidding me. I know NOBODY at NGC and I won. Heck, somebody mentioned that he thought all the "Best Presented" sets stunk.. thats your opinion.. just like the judge expressed his opinion! Hey, that was the catagory I won.. ha ha ha..

 

I do agree.. how can a person win without pictures and descriptions.. it bothers me too.. but hey, I deal with it. I work hard on my collections too.. who doesnt. If it bothers you that the "rich" folks always win, give up on the registry awards! This is the same crybaby that happened last year..and Im sure all the years prior.

 

Look at it this way.. the winner showed his hand.. now you know what you have to do inorder to get an edge.

 

Just had this thought pop into my head.. I guess I should be mad that my team lost the superbowl because the other team had more money to pay for better players.. and then scream that it isnt fair.

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I dont throw anyone under the bus. You called me a sore loser and you dont understand a true collectors tributes .A lot of collectors in here like me spend hunderds of hours at coin shows. Having your eyes hurt at the end of that day because u are constantly looking through magnifing loops. Sending coins in and sometimes making a good one or get murdered with a low grade that comes back and u have to dump it at an auction. Spending hundreds of hours on end making great pics with different lighting and resources. I know I have good pics , but a lot of ppl in here have way better pics than me.These ppl are the true collectors. Anyone can buy a First place spot.. Here is to all you great collectors out there !!! Congrats

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Winning is not 'Luck of the Draw'.... it is supposed to be an objective judgement based on a set of criteria... and I stand by my 'opinion' that the sets are not deserving... the pictures of the coins are poorly done.. crooked, off-center, no presentation value at all... THAT is a fact the anyone with eyes can see. I'd be the first to congratulate a deserving winner, but this is a travesty, which is why there are so many voices raised in objection... and I say where there is smoke, there is probably fire...

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He has 12 coins in a custom set, so yes you do have some coins in your collection.

 

Paul like many others from time to time make a post with spirit and while being upset.

 

Paul Kiraly is a good guy and I doubt he had any intentions to upset anyone, with that being said, it seems his post and other posts have upset some people.

 

When someone makes a post that you feel was particularly hateful or misguided it may be better to take the high road instead of going even lower than that person and making things worse. I say let people stick their foot in their mouths. I know I don't want their foot in my mouth.

 

Walk a mile in another man's shoes, because then you'll be a mile away from them and they won't have any shoes.

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I think the whole thing is a big 'circle jerk'... I'm looking at the 'Best Presented' sets and scratching my head... after seeing which sets got awards, there is no way its not given to friends and buddies. Sorry, but there is no way those sets are better presented, not only mine, but others I saw.

 

The awards are a big sham, IMHO

 

Scott,

 

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that NGC will not give a Best Presented Award for a collection that has already won a Best Presented Award in a previous year. After all, that would essentially make the Best Presented category a "Best of the Best" award. As a former winner of the award, I think that is what happens and don't agree that it is a big sham.

 

 

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If it's all a points issue, and if this guy has more points, they win, how did my Rosey Proof set 65-present w/ Varieties beat Jamie's set. Schatzy's set has more points and 1 more coin, but I've got one nicer coin. How did I win this award?

 

I'm just curious.

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I dont throw anyone under the bus. You called me a sore loser and you dont understand a true collectors tributes .A lot of collectors in here like me spend hunderds of hours at coin shows. Having your eyes hurt at the end of that day because u are constantly looking through magnifing loops. Sending coins in and sometimes making a good one or get murdered with a low grade that comes back and u have to dump it at an auction. Spending hundreds of hours on end making great pics with different lighting and resources. I know I have good pics , but a lot of ppl in here have way better pics than me.These ppl are the true collectors. Anyone can buy a First place spot.. Here is to all you great collectors out there !!! Congrats

 

Paul, I don't understand you at all. It seems to me that you have a false sense of entitlement. The mere fact that you worked hard on a set doesn't mean that you should win, and for all you know the number 1 set could have worked even harder than you did. Moreover there should be no resentment on the boards toward the so-called "rich." Perhaps other people on this board, whose collections that you have repeatedly bashed, are just as passionate, but cannot afford some of the coins that you own. Should they bash you for expending more money? With regards to your 2009 set, it is going on 3 years (depending on when the awards were made); with all due respect get over it.

 

With regards to Jerseycat's collection, what makes you think that he registers all of his coins? Moreover, what exactly is wrong with his set? I like it, and many of his toners are superior to some of your overdipped blast white Roosevelt dimes that are far from unique. AJ and Jamie are both right in that you are a sore loser. I generally try to keep the peace, and I have never told you this before, but when I see Kirally pedigreed coins on the market, I avoid them because I don't like the way you attempt to belittle collectors, and the couple of Roosies that I purchased (before knowing about you) will be reholdered to remove the Kirally provenance.

 

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Another thing that bugs me is that there are plenty of people here who DO NOT own the coins they have registered to them. I bought a few coins from one guy and when I inquired about a couple other coins in his set he stated, "I sold that coin a couple years ago". Then WHY is it still in your set you BUM.

 

People do have lives outside of their coin collections, and they forget. I'm sure that if you purchased one of these coins, the previous owner would be happy to release registration of the coin to you. I'm not sure why you are insulting someone for this.

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As a former winner of the award, I think that is what happens and don't agree that it is a big sham.

 

 

Congratulations on your journal award this year Paul!

 

I know NOBODY at NGC and I won.

 

Congratulations to you as well on your award.

 

If it's all a points issue, and if this guy has more points, they win, how did my Rosey Proof set 65-present w/ Varieties beat Jamie's set. Schatzy's set has more points and 1 more coin, but I've got one nicer coin. How did I win this award?

 

I'm just curious.

 

Congratulations to you too.

 

 

Edited to combine multiple posts.

Edited by coinman_23885

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Scott,

 

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that NGC will not give a Best Presented Award for a collection that has already won a Best Presented Award in a previous year. After all, that would essentially make the Best Presented category a "Best of the Best" award. As a former winner of the award, I think that is what happens and don't agree that it is a big sham.

 

 

Here is where I am coming from in this regard...

 

I am a Game Designer by trade... I have designed many #1 titles, and been part of the award process. I've been nominated in many categories, and have won 4 times for best design, etc. and came in second or third in many other categories. The awards were a competition between the best of the best, and when you came in second, it was against a game that you could say was well deserving. I've never felt cheated, nor did anyone else up for awards.

 

Now, you see they have these awards on G4 for games in the past couple of years. These are a sham. The big companies sponsor the show, their games are up for awards and they win... and the games are complete garbage. The professionals in my industry know this, and laugh at the obsurdity of the whole process.

 

Early in the year, I went through set after set to see what was out there, feel out the competition and worked to make mine fairly presentable. So, when I see the 'winners', I feel cheated... not only for myself, but for those sets that I know are out there that are better presented. I don't mind seeing a well-desrving set get the award... that means I'd have to work harder, and be more creative next time. But this? Sorry.. unacceptable.

 

This is not a rant against the other categories... those go to those who buy the best coins... I collect within my means, for the fun and joy of collecting, as I did when my Grandmother first got me that Whitman penny album and we spent hours going through change to fill it. I am proud of my collection, as I'm sure everyone else is, and rightfully so. Nothing can take those happy memories and feelings from me.

 

I just feel that I have to call BS when I see it... and I definitely see it. Definitely not the way to encourage more people to participate.

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Back in 2009 I had the #1 1947 mint set with my pics and descriptions and NGC gave the trophy to the #2 guy because he had more coins and a sad story behind it. I do not buy low grade coins and I sacrifice everything to make sure I get a rare coin and He got the trophy. I work a lot to buy the best coins and they are not cheap. I dont understand NGC logic

 

 

http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/public_sets.aspx?CategoryID=23&SetTypeID=357&sets=all

 

Your set has to be atleast 50% complete to be eligible for a award. Are you sure you met this criteria.

I looked at you description and you don't have very good descriptions.

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Sets DO NOT have to be 50% to win a best in category. Look at the 1974 proof set and the guy with 1 coin won and now he has 0 coins in that set.

 

Anyone who thinks that its acceptable to have coins in your sets that you do not own, in my mind that makes you a kind of thief. If anything they are misrepresenting themselves and are lying.

 

Sorry if that hurts your feelings but anyone with any kind of respectable morals would agree.

 

The person I was talking about still has those very same coins in their set even though they haven't owned them for years. Can't use the I forgot excuse because its been over a year since I inquired about these coins and they are still IN their sets.

Edited by sethwells

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Sets DO NOT have to be 50% to win a best in category. Look at the 1974 proof set and the guy with 1 coin won and now he has 0 coins in that set.

 

First Paul was taking about the 1947 Mint set where the guy won the Best Presented Award.

If you don't believe me about the 50% check the website below!!

 

To participate, just enter your set online in the NGC Registry. Sets must be at least 50% complete to be eligible for the award categories above.

 

 

Source

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1972 proof winner is 33% complete

1977 proof winner is 16% complete, both are from Parke

 

You don't get it!!

 

 

Your set has to be 50% to get the following awards, the 2 sets you mentioned didn't get any of these awards.

 

Competitive Set Awards

 

Awards will be presented in the following four categories:

 

* The FIVE Best CLASSIC Sets: 1792-1964

* The FIVE Best MODERN Sets: 1950 to date (including Jefferson Nickels and Roosevelt Dimes)

* The FIVE Best PRESENTED Sets: Sets with the best descriptive text and coin images

* The THREE Best WORLD Sets

 

Custom Set Awards

 

Awards will be presented in the following four categories:

 

* The Best Overall Custom Set

* The Best World Custom Set

* The Most Creative Custom Set

* The Most Informative Custom Set

 

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Anyone who thinks that its acceptable to have coins in your sets that you do not own, in my mind that makes you a kind of thief. If anything they are misrepresenting themselves and are lying.

 

Sorry if that hurts your feelings but anyone with any kind of respectable morals would agree.

 

What is it with the registry participants for the ultra modern coins tonight (sans Jaime)? First of all, I never implied that it was okay to lie or intentionally misrepresent a set. The keyword in this statement is "intent." You cannot categorically state that anyone who fails to remove a coin immediately is a thief or otherwise dishonest. I'm not familiar with the particular user you are referring to, and I was responding to some of the broad, categorical statements that you made regarding people in general who fail (without proof of intent to deceive or malice) to unregister their coins.

 

With regards to your second quoted statement, you don't hurt my feelings, and I could generally care less what you think of me personally. I am highly ethical, and because I don't agree that EVERY person who may forget to unregister a coin is a complete jerk or thief, doesn't render me unethical. People like you need to get a grip.

 

And for reference, the specific post that I am referring to is quoted below. You simply allege in that post that the seller sold the coin 2 years ago, which says nothing about his intent to deceive. He could have forgotten about it. If, as you now state, he has been repeatedly contacted and he refuses to change things, then that is different.

 

Another thing that bugs me is that there are plenty of people here who DO NOT own the coins they have registered to them. I bought a few coins from one guy and when I inquired about a couple other coins in his set he stated, "I sold that coin a couple years ago". Then WHY is it still in your set you BUM. ITS because the new owner doesn't belong to our little group and he is safe from it being taken away from his set so he just leaves it in there and enjoys the benefit. AT least on here 2 people cannot have the exact same coin, like PCGS seems to allow. If you don't believe that look up the Proof Washington sets and see there are 2 seperate owners that own the POP 1 1974 PR70DCAM quarter. Just a little too suspicious for me.

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"without proof of intent to deceive or malice" sounds like lawyer speak to me

 

When someone sells a coin, its sold, they no longer hold title to that said possession.

 

If a month later if you told someone you still owned that possession you would be lying.

 

By keeping a coin in your set long after you have sold that coin it is lying at least and definitely misrepresenting.

 

That is my opinion.

 

You can either agree or disagree or otherwise be otherwise.

 

I share my opinion freely, as you have seen from previous posts.

 

A seller's action of keeping that coin in my opinion shows an intent to deceive.

I understand keeping the coin until you have found that the buyer has received the coin, but as soon as you get your feedback or otherwise found that your coin is sold, you should remove it from your collection.

These collectors that I speak of have multiple coins that do not belong to them.

 

When I make posts they usually have some personal experiences involved making them true at least to my example and yes I use a lot of broad, categorical statements because I lump every person who is dishonest together and show them the disrespect they deserve.

 

When I was speaking broadly it wasn't a message I sent directly to you or anyone else and I only expecting to hear complaint from someone who has done the exact thing I am accusing those people of. Anything you read that is just filled to the brim with someone's opinion, is something you might want to think twice about before getting offended. I didn't call you specifically a BUM. Unless you are one of those bad collectors who try to steal and take advantage.

 

Your posts tonight and I mean coinman_23885 seem to be filled with derision and your alacrity is pernicious. More lawyer speak for anyone who enjoys it.

 

I'd like to thank everyone that read my posts and didn't allow themselves to be effected in any negative way as that was not my intention.

 

 

 

 

Edited by sethwells

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"without proof of intent to deceive or malice" sounds like lawyer speak to me

 

A false statement or misrepresentation with the intent to deceive is the de facto definition of a "lie."

 

If a month later if you told someone you still owned that possession you would be lying.

 

But again, there is not proof of an intent to deceive. The coins are left in the set passively and can be easily overlooked. If there is an intent to deceive (i.e. repeated warnings or contact has been made) and the coins still remain there, then I would be inclined to agree with you in that instance. Only in the latter instance would the intent to deceive be evident.

 

When I was speaking broadly it wasn't a message I sent directly to you or anyone else and I only expecting to hear complaint from someone who has done the exact thing I am accusing those people of. Anything you read that is just filled to the brim with someone's opinion, is something you might want to think twice about before getting offended. I didn't call you specifically a BUM. Unless you are one of those bad collectors who try to steal and take advantage.

 

I'm glad that you weren't specifically targeting me. I was offended your statement that no one with morals would disagree with you. My comments to you were not meant to be injurious, but were meant to caution you about making broad pronouncements that require significant qualifications to be accurate statements. If everything you provided (subsequent to the post that prompted my response) is accurate, I would understand your frustration as applied to that seller. I still disagree with your broader pronouncement that categorically states that everyone who fails to remove a coin is attempting to deceive per se.

 

 

P.S. What's wrong with lawyers? :)

 

 

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I have calmed down, It just frustrated me when you worked so hard for years and you get blindsided by somone who obscured their set,with no pics or descriptions gets the plaque.. I wouldnt care if the #1 trophy went to a guy with the #1 silver quarters,nickels pennies, half dollars,ect. and who really deserves it !!!. Plaques should be given to the true collectors who work hard for their collecting passion.

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I have calmed down, It just frustrated me when you worked so hard for years and you get blindsided by somone who obscured their set,with no pics or descriptions gets the plaque.. I wouldnt care if the #1 trophy went to a guy with the #1 silver quarters,nickels pennies, half dollars,ect. and who really deserves it !!!. Plaques should be given to the true collectors who work hard for their collecting passion.

 

Paul, I understand your frustration, but do not understand why you feel the set that won does not have a collector behind it that worked "hard for their collecting passion".

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What we do for recognition in this world. Isn't knowing you have put all you got into something enough. NOPE! There is always next year and you'll be closer to your goal then anyways. Good luck I hope you win next year!

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Also, as a collector who appreciates coins for their history and finds enjoyment in hunting down that one coin they have been after for years, why such focus on winning some award? Investors care about the labels like "best XXX set Of 2012" because it will be easier to sell the coins, but isn't our true reward as collectors just the collection itself? Only you know what went into creating it. Only you can truly appreciate it to the fullest extent. Isn't that enough?

 

Or am I being too naive here?

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Also, as a collector who appreciates coins for their history and finds enjoyment in hunting down that one coin they have been after for years, why such focus on winning some award? Investors care about the labels like "best XXX set Of 2012" because it will be easier to sell the coins, but isn't our true reward as collectors just the collection itself? Only you know what went into creating it. Only you can truly appreciate it to the fullest extent. Isn't that enough?

 

Or am I being too naive here?

 

Not Naive... but it is nice to get an 'atta-boy' every once in a while ;)

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I have calmed down, It just frustrated me when you worked so hard for years and you get blindsided by somone who obscured their set,with no pics or descriptions gets the plaque.. I wouldnt care if the #1 trophy went to a guy with the #1 silver quarters,nickels pennies, half dollars,ect. and who really deserves it !!!. Plaques should be given to the true collectors who work hard for their collecting passion.

 

Paul,

 

That seems a little disingenuous to me. Last year you were in a battle for the number one spot with Brian Anderson and everyone got to watch. Or did you forget about that thread in the NGC Registry section of the forum in which you characterized the Roosevelt Registry as "a blood bath series?" The thread linked below details the soap opera that is the Roosevelt Dime Registry.

 

New #1 in the Silver Roosie Registry!

 

The majority of the coins that comprise this years top Roosevelt collection came from the top 2 sets from 2010. Neither or those sets were obscured in 2010 and I remember drooling over Brian's toned dimes for hours. I am a Jefferson Nickel collector but I have a toned Roosevelt collection as well so I appreciate the series. It is impossible for me to believe that you don't know what you are competing against. When they were in the other two collections, every coin had a great photo and description.

 

I have to believe that you may have brought this upon yourself. After all, you named your collections "Destroying the Competition." In addition, your competition (the other guys in the top 5) are all close friends. By creating such an atmosphere of competition you basically ensured that they would work together to beat you year in and year out.

 

As far as the fairness of the award, I know this: if you had the highest point total for your collection, you would fully expect to win the award, photos and descriptions not withstanding. If you expect recognition for your photos & descriptions then you are expecting a Best Presented Set Award. Now don't take this the wrong way, but your set is not deserving of that award. Many of your photos are scans that don't do your coins justice and your descriptions are too brief.

 

And I would like to make one last point. I fully understand your frustration with obscured sets. The top Jefferson Nickel set has been obscured since I have been collecting Jeffersons. This year, that set won an award for BEST MODERN SET and it is the first time I have ever been able to see the coins, their grades, and their point values. The owner of that set (Specialty One) has only a few photos and descriptions which you still can't see. I hate that people can obscure their sets and still compete in the registry but such is life. My advice to you is to spend some money this year having your phenomenal collection professionally photographed and work hard on your coin descriptions including stories about how you obtained some of your coins. That will put you in the running for a Best Presented Set.

 

And Paul, I meant what I said, you have a PHENOMENAL collection, try to enjoy it this year!

 

Paul

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Wow, reading this thread is pure, soap opera-like, entertainment. BTW, I'm with Seth on the issue of deregistration etiquette.

 

Later,

Malcolm

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