Accugrade Holders

[FishyOne]

I have the opportunity to buy a large lot of Morgan/Peace dollars in old Accugrade photocert holders (see pic below).

 

I have purchased ASA-Accugrade holdered coins in the past but not this type of holder. These pieces (65 total) will be sent to me on approval.

 

Has anyone seen this type of holder before? Any knowledge on the grading codes? I'm told they're all graded MS64.

 

Thanks for any help you can provide!

 

[e1cnr]

the codes are written on the back of the picture if I remember correctly

 

Alan Hager had a nice book on IKEs describing his grading system

and I think also one on Morgans

[bochiman]

Well, if you can grade Morgans/Peace dollars yourself, then there is nothing wrong with getting them on approval and making your decision at that point, right?

 

Worst case scenario, if you agree with the grades/value, you can crack them out and either sell raw or resubmit.

[coinman_23885]

I have come across two of these on eBay in the past. Other than that, I know absolutely nothing about them other than they purport to be early ACG slabs. Also, there are grading codes on the reverse (one for strike, grade, etc.).

[FishyOne]

Well, if you can grade Morgans/Peace dollars yourself, then there is nothing wrong with getting them on approval and making your decision at that point, right?

 

Worst case scenario, if you agree with the grades/value, you can crack them out and either sell raw or resubmit.

 

Thanks. My thoughts exactly.

 

I'm looking foward to seeing them.

[ldhair]

This might help a bit.

A= Full Strike

B= Soft Strike

C= Flat Strike

1= Frosted Surfaces

2= Brilliant Surfaces

3= Dull or Subdued Surfaces

I'm not sure what the letter after the grade is but I have the book somewhere.

 

[coinman_23885]

This might help a bit.

A= Full Strike

B= Soft Strike

C= Flat Strike

1= Frosted Surfaces

2= Brilliant Surfaces

3= Dull or Subdued Surfaces

I'm not sure what the letter after the grade is but I have the book somewhere.

 

You beat me to the punch. If you are curious what the reverse of one of these slabs looks like, here is an image from ebay:

 

[ldhair]

It would be cool to look at a group like this. Knowing that the coins have not been messed with for the past 25 years or so is a plus.

[RJP]

 

Very neat set of dollars you have there. These are old holders and I wish I could even think about buying 65 of them, I do own one though 1883-O A2-64c seems only all of the common coins suvived in these old holders.

Thanks for sharing,

Bob

[FishyOne]

Here's a pic of the group. It should be interesting............

 

[PerryHall]

Those early ACG are fairly rare and seldom seen any more. There are quite a few coin collectors that also seek out and collect the early slabs from the various slabbing companies. These may be worth more if left in these slabs. Also, the coins I've seen in the earliest ACG slabs are usually properly graded unlike in their later slabs.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Those early ACG are fairly rare and seldom seen any more. There are quite a few coin collectors that also seek out and collect the early slabs from the various slabbing companies. These may be worth more if left in these slabs. Also, the coins I've seen in the earliest ACG slabs are usually properly graded unlike in their later slabs.

 

Ditto, to all statements.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[Conder101]

They are usually early. There are about 12 to 14 different varieties of these photoslabs. Most of them date between 1984 and 1986 but Accugrade briefly resurrected them in 1999 for a couple of varieties. The one reverse you show is an ACG 1. It is actually the second generation of ACG holder from 1984. (I have an earlier one that was not known when the book came out.)

[PerryHall]

They are usually early. There are about 12 to 14 different varieties of these photoslabs. Most of them date between 1984 and 1986 but Accugrade briefly resurrected them in 1999 for a couple of varieties. The one reverse you show is an ACG 1. It is actually the second generation of ACG holder from 1984. (I have an earlier one that was not known when the book came out.)

 

So these slabs actually predate PCGS. Very interesting.

[James_OldeTowne]

Also, the coins I've seen in the earliest ACG slabs are usually properly graded unlike in their later slabs.

I was "required" to go through a hoard of about a hundred of these within the past year, and my personal experience does not agree with your statement. To my memory, I found every single one to be overgraded by at least one point, although perhaps a handful could have been "pushed" into the stated grade on a bad day.

 

I would expect you'll want to pay MS-60 money for them and no more.

[FishyOne]

Thank you for all the comments. I'll update this thread later this week after they arrive.

[Conder101]

So these slabs actually predate PCGS. Very interesting.

Yes, PCGS tends to maintain the fiction that they invented slabbing and third party grading. ANACS was the second third party grading service (by just a couple weeks) and they began grading in Jan 1980. That was six years before PCGS. Accugrade was the first service in the US to encapsulate graded coins in slabs, and they started in 1984. Two years before PCGS. PCGS likes to portray themselves as an innovator, but most of their "innovations" were first done by others.

[RJP]

Condor

Let me see if I get this right

April 1972 ANACS start Authenticating coins

Then in

Jan 1980 they added grading to the photo cert and this is on the 3rd type of cert.

Issued from 1978 thru 1981

Does the type 3 photo cert come with or without the grade?

Or grading started on the type 4 photo cert?

Then in 1984

Accugrade started with their slabed photo cert.

Then the rest of the companies followed.

Thanks for all of your knowledge and inputs.

Bob

 

[Conder101]

Good question on the ANACS 3 certificate. I have to admit I hadn't paid attention to that. I would assume it must come both ways because ANACS actually started grading in March of 1979 (my earlier comment about Jan 80 was from memory, I checked my records to get the March 79 date.) and that does overlap the issue period of ANACS 3. The earliest ANACS 3 I have seen was dated 7/3/79, but it does not have a grade on it. I can;t see them waiting until the ANACS 4 because the earliest I have seen for one of those postdates the start of grading by almost two years. I'll have to do some further checking.

 

Companies were slow to switch over to the use of slabs due to the expense of the shells (Injection molding dies are NOT cheap.) and the use of photocertificates did not die out completely until Nov 2002 with the closing of ANAAB. Other than ANAAB though ANACS was about the last in late 1989. The last start up Photocertificate companies were ANICS in 1987 and ANAAB in 1990.

[RJP]

Condor

Thanks for looking into this.

In type 3 photo certs I have one that has no grade on it (dated 5/16/80) two others have a grade and are dated (8/5/79, 4/22/81) these two are in my safety deposit box, next time I get there I will double check them. And scan them to the computer.

My type 4s all have a grade (7/16/81, 4/20/81 but transfer T-7, 1/6/82, 11/11/82, 4/29/82 transfer T-6) Not sure If I get the types with transfers correctly Identified, I use the dates to ID them. But that is where the fun is. There is always more to learn.

Keep up the good research and let me know if there is anything I can do to help you.

Bob

[shorecoll]

In my opinion, Alan could grade, but sometimes chose not to be consistent. If he was "on" when that batch was graded you could have some very nice stuff...or you could have some doggy 62's in 64 holders or a mixture. Having them on approval is a very decent opportunity.

[bochiman]

I would agree....I had heard he could grade as well.

I was on RCC at the time the whole storm hit and watched what was happening. Many many interesting stories about the folks involved (which I won't get into here). Bottom line that most agreed on though was that he could grade, even if the posted grades were disagreed with

[e1cnr]

I am guessing it is an all or nothing deal? as I would doubt if they would just let you pick the best.

 

If you had the time, you should probably look for rare VAMs, as a couple good ones in 63/64 could buy a good chunk of the lot.

[FishyOne]

I am guessing it is an all or nothing deal? as I would doubt if they would just let you pick the best.

 

If you had the time, you should probably look for rare VAMs, as a couple good ones in 63/64 could buy a good chunk of the lot.

 

Yes, it's the 65 S$1 + $500 cash for my sealed box of 5 ASE sets.

 

I will be looking for top VAMs but the main thing is they are all 62 or better, truly BU pieces.

 

I bought an MS62 Accugrade Saint (generic) in few years ago that I cracked and sent to PCGS. It came back AU58. It did CAC after that though!

 

With these 64s, no sliders allowed...............

[James_OldeTowne]

In my opinion, Alan could grade, but sometimes chose not to be consistent. If he was "on" when that batch was graded you could have some very nice stuff...or you could have some doggy 62's in 64 holders or a mixture. Having them on approval is a very decent opportunity.

You better believe he could. That is why he was able to consistently OVERgrade. In order to OVERgrade as consistently as ACG did, they would have to know the "correct grade" to begin with!

 

Hager was and is no dummy. It was just too easy to make fast money by overgrading coins, rather than trying to be conscientious and go for long-term success.

[FishyOne]

In-Hand Follow-Up:

 

I'm very happy with these pieces. The lot contains 26 Morgans and 39 Peace S$1 with a couple of the Morgans being slightly better dates. They average 63+ by my grading. A couple 62s but a lot of strong 64s as well. Many should grade 63 at PCGS or NGC today.

 

Never had this type of holder before and they are nice. Solid and well made for 1984. The Peace dollars are remarkably free of water spots and have good luster. Many of the Morgans have light rim toninig. Here's some images of a couple strong 64s, the slab, and the lot.

 

Thank you for all the comments/advice.

 

 

 

 

[bochiman]

Good for you and glad that they mapped out how I thought (the early graded ones seem to be graded about right by standards then...unlike once the $$$ hit the eyes and the trickery began...)

[RJP]

FishyOne

How does this story end?

Did you buy the set of 65 of them?

Have you cracked any out that you thought would upgrade?

Any Good VAMs?

I found this thread very interesting and I am hoping for the big finish, I would assumed that you did buy them.

I would be interested in buying two of them, if you might want to sell some, even any of what you think might be the low grades. One Morgan and One Peace, or a pair of different ones with different labels. Send me a PM if you want.

Thanks for the story

Bob

[WoodenJefferson]

~Kudos~ These are the kind of threads you won't see ATS because they would be immediately *poofed*

 

Interesting read and nice images.

[jom]

You better believe he could. That is why he was able to consistently OVERgrade. In order to OVERgrade as consistently as ACG did, they would have to know the "correct grade" to begin with!

 

Which sort of supports what I've believed for years: consistency is far more important than accuracy.

 

jom