The "Silver Anniversary Set"
0

22 posts in this topic

166 posts

A "Holy Grail"

 

After waiting, and seeing the Order Status and Shipping Date change Daily, I hope that my Son's Mint order doesn't get canned(it's only for One Set). I doubt that we'd be able to accumulate a complete set of Certified coins on the open market once they're all let loose.

 

The 2011 25th Anniversary Set is the "Silver Anniversary" of our Silver Eagles. Though the 20th Anniversary set was notable, the 25th or "Silver" Anniversaries, along with the shrinking number of available Complete Sets are quickly making this set a "Holy Grail" to ASE collectors. I doubt that a 30th Anniversary set will be issued, but if there is, it won't outshine the 25th.

 

There is a measure of "hype" factored into the initial market prices being asked and Paid, and they will go Much higher, even after some adjustment for the Hype- prices will most likely stay high! Similarly, the 2006-20th Anniversary Sets, with a mintage of 250,000 sets, after prices initially skyrocketed from the original cost of $33.33 per coin, prices retracted only a bit, even after 5 years.

 

With the 2011 set mintage is only 100,000 or 40% of the 2006 set. It's expected that the ultimate value of its' 2 distinctive and exclusive coins may go the way of the 1995-W Proof Silver Eagle in their comparative respective states (raw or graded). The fact that many owners will, or already have opened their sets, only further inflates the value of those 2 coins; the remaining "Mint Sealed Sets"; and the certified individual coins, and complete sets. I have no doubt that the price the Mint sealed box set ends up North of 5-G's, even 5 years from now.

 

Whether my Son finally gets his set from the Mint or not, I urge collectors to Not Open the carton arriving from the Mint, and to have the entire set graded Only by the 3 major grading concerns - NGC; PCGS; or ANACS, and stay away from the rest. Opening the Mint carton to 'look' at your coins, or using the minor grading companies will only devalue your coins, and lose obtaining "set" status for the 3 coins that were issued both in the set, and individually beforehand.Of course some of this is only my opinion, I could be off a bit.

 

See more journals by Gino Tumminia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
101 posts

I got my one set this morning from the UPS man. I was very suprised that the box was so big for one set. 8"D x 14.5"L x 11"W. I then went to the PO and got a box to drop that one into and now its gone to NGC. Has anyone else got this size box from the mint for only one set?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,378 posts
A "Holy Grail"

 

After waiting, and seeing the Order Status and Shipping Date change Daily, I hope that my Son's Mint order doesn't get canned(it's only for One Set). I doubt that we'd be able to accumulate a complete set of Certified coins on the open market once they're all let loose.

 

The 2011 25th Anniversary Set is the "Silver Anniversary" of our Silver Eagles. Though the 20th Anniversary set was notable, the 25th or "Silver" Anniversaries, along with the shrinking number of available Complete Sets are quickly making this set a "Holy Grail" to ASE collectors. I doubt that a 30th Anniversary set will be issued, but if there is, it won't outshine the 25th.

 

There is a measure of "hype" factored into the initial market prices being asked and Paid, and they will go Much higher, even after some adjustment for the Hype- prices will most likely stay high! Similarly, the 2006-20th Anniversary Sets, with a mintage of 250,000 sets, after prices initially skyrocketed, prices have retracted only a bit, even after 5 years.

 

With the 2011 set mintage is only 100,000 or 40% of the 2006 set. It's expected that the ultimate value of its' 2 distinctive and exclusive coins may go the way of the 1995-W Proof Silver Eagle in their comparative respective states (raw or graded). The fact that many owners will, or already have opened their sets, only further inflates the value of those 2 coins; the remaining "Mint Sealed Sets"; and the certified individual coins, and complete sets. I have no doubt that the price the Mint sealed box set ends up North of 5-G's, even 5 years from now.

 

Whether I finally get my set from the Mint or not, I urge collectors to Not Open the carton arriving from the Mint, and to have the entire set graded Only by the 3 major grading concerns - NGC; PCGS; or ANACS, and stay away from the rest. Opening the Mint carton to 'look' at your coins, or using the minor grading companies will only devalue your coins, and lose obtaining "set" status for the 3 coins that were issued both in the set, and individually beforehand.

 

See more journals by Gino Tumminia

I originally purchased the 2006 Anniversary set from the U.S. Mint. The Reverse proof was graded PF-70 with the Anniversary Label. This coin was $750.00 It is now $550.00 This is almost a 30% decrease. How can you state that it has declined only a small amount?For five years it was the only Reverse Proof in existence yet it has declined almost 30%. What do you think is going to happen now that it is no longer the only one in existence?There are only two in this set that haven't already been released which are the Reverse Proof and the one with the San Francisco Mint mark. Even this one has dubious value since there are sets out there that have the 25th anniversary label with " minted in San Francisco" I have one encapsulated by PCGS and a grade of 70. So except for a different label design there is really om one coin and possibly two that haven't already been released.There are already people out there advertising the set all in the grade 70 for $4000.00 Since you can buy at least three of them for $100 each in grade 70 then this makes the other two worth $3700 divided by two or $1850 each. Do you really think that either of those coins are worth $1850 each?. You can buy an oz of Gold for that and get change. I would have liked to have a set to complete ny set as I have them all since 1986.I have had a standing subscription for the annual silver proof set . ASE Mint and A.S.E. Proof since it was possible. There are people out there who could care less about collecting the series who have 25 sets advertised for sale. The U.S.Mint and the greedy profiteers have ruined the Series for Collectors. I am sure that the Naive and Gullible will pay triple the price and even $4000 for the set. The claim by the U.S. Mint that they did no have enough phone operators and an outdated computer system is garbage. They also state on their website that they have the discretion to adjust the orders.They have no intention of any adjustments. They should have reduced all orders to 1 and ten increased them back after everybody got one set. The fact that they haven't demonstrates that they could care less about their regular customers in the series.I also collect Morgan Dollars. I am finished with the Silver Eagle and will never order one more item from them. If all collectors did the same then there might be changes but the sheep out there will continue to take it, The U.S Mint prints an apology and expects them to continue to purchase all the annual sets and the A.S.E for the next five or ten years with the promise that they will do better.Congratulations on getting one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,738 posts

CHABSENTIA, I didn't get the set I ordered but there are too many other choices out there to even worry over. Yesterday when I was notified that my set was cancelled I simply ordered my final MS70 to complete the MS set of three for 2011. I allready have one proof for 2011 so that only leaves one "The Reverse Proof". With my luck I probably would have received a set that graded all 69s. Actually I think plenty of people will be disapointed with their grades. Think about it 4 of the 5 coins already have a high population. The mint is not going to make a new die for these, and they are probably the last pile of coins left over from earlier productions this year. The only one that will be a sure fresh print is the 100,000 reverse proofs.

Got a couple nice silver dimes on the way.

 

HAPPY COIN COLLECTING-----------------------Rick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,700 posts

Great points Chab and Rick...if I get cancelled I'll just assemble my own 5-coin set..3 or 4 should be easy and inexpensive and eventually I'll snag the others at a decent price--patience in numismatics seems to be a major money saver..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
360 posts

Patience is indeed a virtue in our hobby... I've managed to pick up many of my high grade coins for about half the 'going' price by waiting. I was very disappointed in the Mint with this set... especially since I got emails from 'dealers' asking me to buy 5 sets for them, and getting anyone else I know to do the same...

 

Shame on the Mint for making so few, and not setting the initial limit at 1 per household.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 posts

wow ... pretty negative stuff. maybe i'm just a naive amateur at this, and usually i'm close to the front of the queue of cynics and critics when it comes to government in general (especially bureaucratic behaviors such as mint order processing) ... but i'm really looking forward to the anniversary set arriving today (according to the mint and UPS) and i'm optimistic about all four sets i ordered being ms69/70 (i'll reship direct to NGC for certification).

 

the mint has been supremely courteous, helpful, and quick to respond every time i've interacted with them - except for their system failures in this particular offering, for which they apologized profusely when i did reach them to confirm the order (and via broadcast email to, i assume, everyone who placed an order for whom they had an address), change the shipping address (my bad), and inquire about the floating ship date.

 

after some persistence and struggles, my order made it into their system online within the first hour of the offering and it will arrive today, much earlier than estimated. just lucky i guess.i believe the mint's phone and online systems buckled under the demand - as an IT pro with extensive federal sector experience i know just how bad the 2nd- and 3rd-tier agencies' infrastructures usually are. maybe Hanlon's Razor is a better explanation: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

 

if the order limit had been "1", three of my family members would be getting different gifts next month. "5" was a reasonable number - small enough to curtail the dealers' voracious appetites while still leaving room for individuals to give gifts, invest for more value, and/or just to have a few extra for their own sake (e.g., for many numismatists, like others with "GAS" - guitar acquisition syndrome - the right number to own is always one more than i currently have). already wish I'd ordered my limit of 5 ... i just didn't think it through (my bad again).

 

whatever the collectible value turns out to be over time, i abide in my real motivation for adding this set to my admittedly incomplete set of AEs ... ultimately it's simply the aesthetic pleasure - not perfectionism, materialism, consumerism, competition, or anything else. just the simple pleasure of beauty experienced and preserved, as fine art. the mint hasn't disappointed me yet in the proofs (except the '95W, which i don't have) and UNCs i've received, nor in the previous anniversary sets. i don't expect they will this time either.

 

i'm a happy customer and an excited collector. sorry so many of you don't appear to share the joy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
348 posts

My order status is currently "In Stock and Reserved", so I'm hoping to get a box soon. I checked ebay this morning; dozens of listings for unopened boxes, mostly five sets each, opening bids north of $3000. One dealer has a set already graded, al NGC 70's, with the current bid around $1900, and a NGC 69 set with a bid of close to $700.

 

When my sets arrive (assuming they do), they will go to NGC for grading. If the Mint's quality standards are similar to recent years, there should be at least one complete set of 70's ot of the five.

 

It took close to three hours to get my order in the system on 10/27. Peak demand, slow servers, all the "usual" IT excuses. My only complaint is that the system was not designed to "keep your place in line" when it bogged down; it seemed like every time the process stalled, the orders currently in priocess went back to the end of he line. I started my order at 12:00:05 and completed it at 2:45. I see that others started at 12:20 or later and completed their order in less than 10 minutes. It was pure luck if you happened to click the button at the micro-second the servers were ready for another order, you got in. If not, start over. That's the only way some people got orders completed in minutes while others took hours or never got in at all.

 

As for the five set limit, I think the limit should have been two or three to give more collectors a shot at sets and to make it harder for dealers to accumulate hundreds of sets as some obviously have. I'll be happy to get my sets, even happier if more than one set grades out at 70.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 posts

The point you may be missing is that the label on all 5 coins will say 25th Anniversary Set.

They can only be graded with the "Set" label when sent to NGC or PCGS in the sealed shipping carton from the mint.With all the opened cartons I see on Ebay that can not get the 25th Anniversary Set pedigree label should mean a premium on those that do.Sure you can make up sets with the 25th Anniversary label but will not be a true "25th Anniversary Set".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,378 posts
The point you may be missing is that the label on all 5 coins will say 25th Anniversary Set.

They can only be graded with the "Set" label when sent to NGC or PCGS in the sealed shipping carton from the mint.With all the opened cartons I see on Ebay that can not get the 25th Anniversary Set pedigree label should mean a premium on those that do.Sure you can make up sets with the 25th Anniversary label but will not be a true "25th Anniversary Set".

 

I didn't miss anything. I mentioned that the only difference was the label design. There are 5 coins in the set.

1. 2011 Uncirculated Eagle

2. Proof Eagle.

 

I already have those two coins in grade 70 by PCGS. They have 25th Anniversary on them but not Anniversary set. Are you going to tell me that the 70 with the Anniversary Set designation is a better coin than the 70 with just the 25th Anniversary label. Maybe you are willing to pay a premium for the label.

 

3. Eagle Billion coin. Same situation

 

4. Reverse Proof. This coin is going to get the 25th Anniversary set designation anyway as it is the only reverse proof/

 

5. Eagle with the S.F. Mintmark. There are already encapsulated coins out there that don't have the S.F. Mint mark but the label minted in S.F.. This will also get the 25th Anniversary Set label because it s the only 2011 wit that mintmark.

 

 

Going back to the set offered with all five coins in 70 for $4000. This is an average of $800 each. You can get the Uncirculated, Proof and Bullion grade 70 that are exactly the same as the ones in the set on Ebay for $100,00. Are you willing to tell me that each of these coins deserve as much as a $700 premium because of a label with "Anniversary Set"?

 

I bought the original 2006 set from the U.S Mint. My 2006 Reverse Proof is a PF70. It is now listed by NGC as $550.00 It was $750.00

 

The Mintage on them is 100.000. I just purchased an 1880 CC GSA Morgan Dollar Reverse of 78 for $695. in MS63 NGC. NGC lists it as $910.00

 

David Bower lists the entire mintage for it as 125,000. So we have about the same mintage and the same price. Of course this is the entire circulation is 125,000 and the GSA is much less.

 

Care to tell me which one will retain the most value in two or three years.

 

Meanwhile the U.S. Mint has issued an apology that their computer system is outdated and there weren't enough phone lines etc and that they maintain their customers in the highest regard. Just continue to buy all their issues and sets that are in the millions or even tens of millions for the next ten or 15 years when they issue another anniversary set and they will try harder.

 

If people want to be drawn into this scam that the U.S. Mint allowed to happen and purchase these sets from the Profiteers that could care less about the series than go for it. The Reality of the prices on the 2006 Anniversary set does not warrant it. Before you had only one Reverse Proof in existence and it went down in value by almost 30%. Now you have two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,378 posts
CHABSENTIA, I didn't get the set I ordered but there are too many other choices out there to even worry over. Yesterday when I was notified that my set was cancelled I simply ordered my final MS70 to complete the MS set of three for 2011. I allready have one proof for 2011 so that only leaves one "The Reverse Proof". With my luck I probably would have received a set that graded all 69s. Actually I think plenty of people will be disapointed with their grades. Think about it 4 of the 5 coins already have a high population. The mint is not going to make a new die for these, and they are probably the last pile of coins left over from earlier productions this year. The only one that will be a sure fresh print is the 100,000 reverse proofs.

Got a couple nice silver dimes on the way.

 

Rick. Read my next post where I go to into detail. No sense in repeating it all again. As mentioned earlier I already have the set of three all in 70 encapsulated by PCGS. A grade 70 is a grade 70. How does the label "anniversary set" make it more perfect. I already have a PCGS 70 with the label "minted in S,F.". Would have liked to have the one with the actual Mint Mark. I suspect the U,S, Mint did this deliberately to try and make the set more valuable.

 

I purchased the original 2006 Anniversary set from the U,S, Mint. My 2006 Reverse Proof is a PF70 and NGC now has its value at $550,00. It was $750 Where the 2006 was the only one there are now two Reverse Proofs,

 

HAPPY COIN COLLECTING-----------------------Rick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,378 posts
wow ... pretty negative stuff. maybe i'm just a naive amateur at this, and usually i'm close to the front of the queue of cynics and critics when it comes to government in general (especially bureaucratic behaviors such as mint order processing) ... but i'm really looking forward to the anniversary set arriving today (according to the mint and UPS) and i'm optimistic about all four sets i ordered being ms69/70 (i'll reship direct to NGC for certification).

 

the mint has been supremely courteous, helpful, and quick to respond every time i've interacted with them - except for their system failures in this particular offering, for which they apologized profusely when i did reach them to confirm the order (and via broadcast email to, i assume, everyone who placed an order for whom they had an address), change the shipping address (my bad), and inquire about the floating ship date.

 

after some persistence and struggles, my order made it into their system online within the first hour of the offering and it will arrive today, much earlier than estimated. just lucky i guess.i believe the mint's phone and online systems buckled under the demand - as an IT pro with extensive federal sector experience i know just how bad the 2nd- and 3rd-tier agencies' infrastructures usually are. maybe Hanlon's Razor is a better explanation: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

 

There was no system failure. The problem was that people who could care less about the series and had never purchased a coin in the series before this and will not purchase on after this bought five sets and got their friends and relatives who could also care less about the series to also try and get five sets. They flooded the phone lines and the website.

 

Of course the U.S. Mint was "supremely " courteous. They want their regular customers that have been with them for years to continue to purchase their annual sets that have a mintage in the millions and tens of millions that probably won't increase as much as inflation the next ten or fifteen years and they will try harder on the next limited set.

 

If the U.S. Mint was really concerned about the "highest regard: for its customers then it would have adjusted the orders to one per person and their website states that it is within their right to do it. They didn't do it. Their policies enabled the serious customer in the series to be cut out and at mercy to the profiteers. I have been a steady customer to the U.S. Mint for over a decade and much longer. I will never order another item from them.

 

It is too bad that all serious collectors don't boycott them. This will not happen and the U.S. Mint will continue to shaft its regular customers and apologize and it will be business as usual,

 

As for quotes since seem to like them. Oscar Wllde defnes a Cynic " as knowing the Price of everything but the Value of nothing". He also said that " the only thing that I can't resist is Temptation". Seems to be the case with this series for many.

 

I guess I am being practical and not a Cynic and I am not going to be drawn into the temptation of this scam by the profiteers and the enabler U.S. MINT.

 

If others want to pay an inflated $3000 dollars and even $1900 for it then P,T Barnum was alleged to have made the correct statement. I can find better coins to buy with that sum of money.

 

if the order limit had been "1", three of my family members would be getting different gifts next month. "5" was a reasonable number - small enough to curtail the dealers' voracious appetites while still leaving room for individuals to give gifts, invest for more value, and/or just to have a few extra for their own sake (e.g., for many numismatists, like others with "GAS" - guitar acquisition syndrome - the right number to own is always one more than i currently have). already wish I'd ordered my limit of 5 ... i just didn't think it through (my bad again).

 

whatever the collectible value turns out to be over time, i abide in my real motivation for adding this set to my admittedly incomplete set of AEs ... ultimately it's simply the aesthetic pleasure - not perfectionism, materialism, consumerism, competition, or anything else. just the simple pleasure of beauty experienced and preserved, as fine art. the mint hasn't disappointed me yet in the proofs (except the '95W, which i don't have) and UNCs i've received, nor in the previous anniversary sets. i don't expect they will this time either.

 

i'm a happy customer and an excited collector. sorry so many of you don't appear to share the joy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
166 posts

11-11-11, My 3 sets were just delivered, and It just cost me another $312 for the NGC Fees and Insured Postage. Total cost for 3 sets-Over $1,200? - It's sure ain't cheap to certify These 15 coins!

 

I hope my son gets his 2 sets, those are Backordred til the 27th-which probably means Cancelled! I was goning to give him one of mine anyway.

 

11-23-11- Sets are now in the Grading/QC Stage.

Edited by Broke-Daddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 posts

Why do you think NGC and PCGS had you ship the coins in the sealed shipping carton from the mint.It's the only way NGC and PCGS could tell that all 5 coins actually were in the set. Anybody could take the other 3 common coins in the set and switch them with coins purchased months ago and receive a premium for the sets they don't deserve.I'm not saying my 70 with 25th Anniversary Set is a better grade then your 25th Anniversary Label. I'm putting the premium on the # of 5 coin sets that will be graded as 25th Anniversary Sets.The only way to tell the coins came out of the 5 coin set is to get them with the 25th Anniversary Set label. These sets are already being broken up so buyer beware. In my opinion there will be genuine 25th Anniversary Sets which will receive a premium and there will be generic 25th Anniversary label sets made up with coins purchased who knows when.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,378 posts
Why do you think NGC and PCGS had you ship the coins in the sealed shipping carton from the mint.It's the only way NGC and PCGS could tell that all 5 coins actually were in the set. Anybody could take the other 3 common coins in the set and switch them with coins purchased months ago and receive a premium for the sets they don't deserve.I'm not saying my 70 with 25th Anniversary Set is a better grade then your 25th Anniversary Label. I'm putting the premium on the # of 5 coin sets that will be graded as 25th Anniversary Sets.The only way to tell the coins came out of the 5 coin set is to get them with the 25th Anniversary Set label. These sets are already being broken up so buyer beware. In my opinion there will be genuine 25th Anniversary Sets which will receive a premium and there will be generic 25th Anniversary label sets made up with coins purchased who knows when.

 

My 2006 Reverse Proof PF70 went from $750 to $550. Just checked E Bay and you can get them for $455 -$475,

 

If you are a collector then it makes no difference to you.The annual A.S.E. has not increased that much in value over the years. Most of the present value is due to the rise in price of Silver. I already have three of the coins with a different label. A 70 is a 70.

 

I know the shipping procedure as I purchases the 2006 set from the U.S.Mint. Apparently there is a lot of people on EBay that just want to look at the raw sets and not grade them as they are bidding up the unsealed sets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,378 posts
CHABSENTIA, I didn't get the set I ordered but there are too many other choices out there to even worry over. Yesterday when I was notified that my set was cancelled I simply ordered my final MS70 to complete the MS set of three for 2011. I allready have one proof for 2011 so that only leaves one "The Reverse Proof". With my luck I probably would have received a set that graded all 69s. Actually I think plenty of people will be disapointed with their grades. Think about it 4 of the 5 coins already have a high population. The mint is not going to make a new die for these, and they are probably the last pile of coins left over from earlier productions this year. The only one that will be a sure fresh print is the 100,000 reverse proofs.

Got a couple nice silver dimes on the way.

 

HAPPY COIN COLLECTING-----------------------Rick

 

I already had the bullion in 70. I also have the one without the San Francisco Mint mark but a PCGS 70 label that states it was minted in S.F. I had bought both the Proof and Uncirc 2011 and sent them to NGC and received a 70 for both. I also have the UNCIRC with the 'W" mint mark which I have not sent for grading yet and which I purchased from the U.S. Mint

 

I checked E Bay for the first time yesterday.They are asking $400 for the Reverse Proof and $400 for the S.F. Mint mark.

 

I will not pay these prices. I bought the original 2006 set from the U..S Mint. The Reverse Poof is a PF70. It was $750. Before this set it was $550. I checked E Bay and a PF70 2006 Reverse Proof is going for $455-$475 and now there are two.

 

Sellers who had not purchased a coin in the series before the 2011 Anniversary set and will not purchase one again have unsealed the sets as well as broken them up. Three of the coins will only be worth the common issue and will increase the mint size of them. I wonder how many people purchasing the unsealed sets realize it? This is a perfect example of people purchasing a set and not understanding the mechanics of the grading procedure because they see a temporary profit.

 

They have ruined the series for me and the U.S. Mint has enabled them.

 

I started collecting them in 1986 and have been a regular customer of the U.S. Mint also in the annual; Silver Proof set/ The U.S. Mint does not care about its regular customers.

 

I will stick exclusively with the Morgan Dollar.

 

The Silver Eagle hardly did anything except for 70s and that was the early dates. The MS70 and the PR70 has not done that well in the last eight years. The Majority of the increase in which s recent was because of the large percentage increase in the price of silver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
248 posts
I got the same size box.

My question is how to set up the order. Do we have to list each of the 5 coins seperately?

 

Danny

 

Yes, you have to put each coin on its own line. If you've got multiple sets in there, each coin still gets its own line on the submission form.

 

There's a thread under 'Ask NGC' here http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5218735#Post5218735

 

Hope this helps,

Steven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
166 posts

Were not talking about scams or one coin being better than another. True that 3 of the coins in the Anniv Set have previously been issued- As was true with 2 of the 3 20th Anniv Set eagles. However it's the "SET" label that offers a pedigree, and the premium on its value because of it. Again, no difference in the coin, Just where it came from and its Label. Also, there Will be a sepeate slot for each of those 5 coins, both as part of the existing MS and PF ASE Sets, as well as the 25th Anniversary Registry Set itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0