ICG GRADING VS NGC AND PCGS

[RH-migration]

Just like some feedback on ICG slabbed coins. I know they will not sell for as much as PCGS or NGC slabs. The slabbed coins from ICG that I have considered buying were I thought fairly graded, but I have been reluctant to purchase anything outside of ngc and pcgs, although I do have a few older anacs slabbed coins. Would like your opinions on this grading service and how much to pay vs the same grade from pcgs or ngc. I know its lower but what percentage lower

[World Colonial]

I do not collect US coins but I believe the answer is the same. It depends upon the specific coin. Generally, I would only pay less but might make an exception if an ICG coin was the only option. There is no "rule of thumb" to apply unless perhaps the coins are common or very common.

[x2rider]

Hi RH and welcome to the boards

 

I have generally found found a 10 to 15% difference between PCGS and NGC . to ICG

 

That said I have seen coins in ICG slabs go for more than the big two as well . If I am ever buying one I would at least look for a 1 point drop in grading and cost to get it regrade if I wanted to .

 

But That said " It's all about the coin " not whats around it

 

Martin

[Mozin]

ICG does better in certain coin series than others. What are you collecting?

[erwindoc]

My only experience with ICG is where I bought an ICG coin and when I cracked it out and tried to cross it over, it came back two points under the ICG grade. There are probably plenty of other examples where people have had both similar and better luck than I had.

[djdilliodon]

My only experience with ICG is where I bought an ICG coin and when I cracked it out and tried to cross it over, it came back two points under the ICG grade. There are probably plenty of other examples where people have had both similar and better luck than I had.

 

I purchased a few years back a 1959 franklin proof half dollar in an ICG holder graded at a PF67 cameo. The pics that where shown didnt do any justice to the coin at all so i bid anyway. Got the coin in hand and it did have a good amount of frost so I cracked it and sent it in. The coin came back a PF66 cameo from NGC I paid 60 something bux for it. I would buy an ICG coin or any other for that matter providing i can inspect the coin in hand with a 7 day return policy.

[prudden]

My one and only experience with ICG,I bought an 82 S Morgan graded MS66 by ICG. It is a super gorgeous coin. After looking over some NGC 66's,I decided to crack it out and play the game.I chose on my submission form a least grade of MS 65.Well,that's what I got. I do think it's a 66,luckily I paid a bit over MS 65 money for it. I would have no qualms selling it as a 66.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

In my experience, ICG grading is the worst of the big four, period. Now, ANACS has tried very hard to become the worst, but they haven't quite gotten down to ICG's level. Every single ICG MS-70 or PF-70 I've ever examined - and there is a boat load of such coins - has had a flaw that easily should have kept the coin out of such a ridiculous grade.

 

In 65 - 69, ICG also cannot be trusted. I'd say always take a point off their grade to arrive at the most likely PCGS or NGC grade.

 

At 64 and below, then they are merely "OK" - not horrible by any means, but simply unreliable. Sometimes, that can mean they've UNDERgraded a coin, but their consistency leaves much to be desired, in my opinion. And, they have let entirely too many doctored coins fall "through the cracks" over the years. I once bought a bust half in VF-35 and documented how it went from light grey to near-black and grew mushrooms all over it, and took the images directly to James Taylor (this was a number of years ago). They would not honor the grading guarantee, even though it was plainly obvious that the coin had turned horribly in the holder. From that point forward, I have simply always assumed ICG had no plans to stand behind their service... which may tell you something about their service (wink).

 

I trust their authenticating completely, and that is a big thing to me.

 

over!

[michael]

1--- if you like a coin and are afraid of it because it is graded by icg and/or raw and think out of concern for market acceptaNCE

 

then by all means only buy the coins you like and!! approve of only in pcgs and ngc holders

 

it will save you lots of time and grief

 

as to give opinions as such specific answers

 

i need to SEE THE SPECIFIC COIN IN HAND SIGHT SEEN be it raw or in an icg holder and then i can comment as such as to market acceptance, grade and possible crossover to the slabbing company of your choice

[michael]

OH AND WELCOME TO THE BOARDS (thumbs u

 

 

AND TO THE WACKY CRazy world of the coin game and all the inherent value in the plastic surrounding any said coin

you are considering buying with your hard earned money

 

 

[BillJones]

Very early on ICG made a strong effort to be a first class grading service. Many of their coins during this early period were equal to their NGC and PCGS counterparts. When they failed to crack the market, sadly they let their standards slip and that was the end of any hopes that they would challenge the "big two."

 

Part of their trouble was that some collectors and dealers crossed over their good coins mostly to PCGS leaving the below average stuff behind. Another part of their trouble was that some dealers, including a major dealer, bad mouthed the company to preserve the PCGS position. I heard some of these discussions on bourse floors, and it was obvious that certain dealers did not want ICG to succeed in breaking into the top of the grading market.

 

Since then you have to look at ICG on a coin by coin basis. Some their older coins can be okay. A few years ago I handled a Carson City Morgan dollar in an MS-64 holder that was as nice as you could want for the grade. I was able to sell it to my customer at a discount, but he was still not happy.

 

I will agree with the others that their grading of PR or MS 70 moderns is lax. They are doing this for marketing purposes rather than applying true grading standards.

[TheTdotP-migration]

I currently only have one Silver Eagle ICG Slab. I like the unique slab and they did a good job or grading the coin in my opinion. I like ICG. I live about 20 minutes from their HQ- I just found this out. Needless to say I have some key date Mercs and Buffalos and they need to be slabbed. I called ICG and they set up an appointment for me where I can drop off my coins ( no shipping charges ) and speak with the grader of my coins. He or She will go over the process and also help me fill out the submission paperwork. I like them....

[Nutmeg Coin]

Two top employees who work for ICG:

 

Skip Fazzari, was with NGC/NCS.

 

http://www.icgcoin.com/team-view/skip-fazzari/

 

Randy Campbell; he is at many shows and has been for many years offering free and friendly grade opinions, very personable. There aren't too many experts you can walk up to at major coins shows and get free grading analysis without feeling obligated to buying something.

 

http://www.icgcoin.com/team-view/randy/

 

ICG will do conservation for free if asked on submissions and often do varieties for free. Not bad for a $12 economy grading fee. No invoice fee or other extras. Yes I have seen some of their over-graded coins, but also undergraded ones.

 

 

 

[coinman_23885]

If you understand coin grading, the company isn't that bad although that could be because I cherry pick the slabs. I have had coins cross at grade especially with the older coins with a hologram in the front of the slab. With those that have downgraded, I have had a couple of MS66 Silver Dollars drop to PCGS MS65+. The most significant drop for me was an 1889 ICG MS67 Gold Dollar that went to PCGS MS66 CAC. I wasn't expecting a 67 and paid a price that I am happy with and sold the piece for a profit.

 

I have, however, seen a few problem coins in problem free newer holders, but the same can be said of the big two. The only coin I have personally handled that I truly felt was atrocious was a 1937 D 3 Legged Buffalo Nickel in a ICG MS63 holder that looked whizzed AU details in hand.

 

Bottom Line: My experience with the older slabs is that they usually cross within a point except they were pretty loose on moderns. The newer holdered coins are more variable, but as long as you know what you're doing, you'll be fine.

 

P.S. Watch out though for puttied gold - this is a problem for all services in fairness though.

[coinman_23885]

Hi RH and welcome to the boards

 

I have generally found found a 10 to 15% difference between PCGS and NGC . to ICG

 

That said I have seen coins in ICG slabs go for more than the big two as well . If I am ever buying one I would at least look for a 1 point drop in grading and cost to get it regrade if I wanted to .

 

But That said " It's all about the coin " not whats around it

 

Martin

 

(thumbs u

[Hard Times]

I had one HT token in an ICG MS63 holder. Cracked it out, sent it to NGC and got MS65. So it pays to look at ICG holdered items.

 

Best, HT

[Nutmeg Coin]

I bought an 1852-O $20 in an ICG AU50 from Tom Paine when NGE was active at the Baltimore show 10 or more years ago. I cracked it out it upgraded to a 55 and sold it to Paul Nugget who acted like my long lost friend afterwards, so I know he made money on it maybe an upgrade to a 58? But that was the old ICG when they were very tight.

 

Now I see a lot of ICG MS 65 $20s that look no better to me than MS63 being sold at internet auctions. They have a place, but you have to buy the coin not the holder and have clear return privileges if any services' coins turn out to be inaccurately graded. I looked at a top two grading service MS65 $20 Lib. at Sloats today that had way too many bag marks for a gem especially an 04, so they all have accurate and inaccurate results.

[Conder101]

I can drop off my coins ( no shipping charges ) and speak with the grader of my coins. He or She will go over the process and also help me fill out the submission paperwork.

If so that is a change. When ICG started they didn't accept the submissions directly, they were sent to a for better terms subfirm that unpacked the coins and put them in flips and boxes. They then took them to the actual grading firm to insure that the graders would have no knowledge of where or who the coins came from. More than likely if you go to their address you will be speaking to those people and not the graders. Kind of like when you see NGC or PCGS at a show. The people accepting submissions and helping to fill out the forms are not graders, They are staff.

[leeg]

I agree with most here that it is all about the coin, regardless the company grading it. ICG must see in hand.

 

My one experience with ICG:

 

 

 

 

cracked it out and sent to PCGS:

 

 

PCGS 64BN

 

Went from RB to BN but mantained the same grade. This all went down in 2006.

 

 

[kryptonitecomics]

I once sold a Rainbow toned Morgan in an ICG MS67 holder. I was convinced it was AT but since it was graded I deferred to the experts and sold the coin for my client. The buyer who was no novice at toners had asked my opinion before buying it and he was convinced it was legit and after seeing it in hand he cracked the coin out and sent it to PCGS where it promptly body bagged as AT. The coin was resold in the genuine holder on Ebay and the new buyer sent it back to ICG where it once again graded MS67. I have seen plenty of nice accurately graded coins in ICG holders but I have seen several no brainer AT coins as well. That's not to say that NGC and PCGS are perfect....but I trust their experts a bit more when spending my own money.

[jom]

I agree with most here that it is all about the coin, regardless the company grading it. ICG must see in hand.

 

Exactly except I'd add: ALL coins must be seen in hand...not just the 2nd tier TPG coins.

 

My only experience was one of those pretty 39-D Mercury dimes I bought in an MS68FB ICG holder. I later cracked it and sent to PCGS and got the same grade. I sold it for about 5X-7X sometime later.

 

 

jom

[Houston Investor]

I wonder if ICG still has their bulk review option. Like where they review a roll and only charge you for the coins that make the minimum grade you specified on the form.

 

This is one feature I really liked about them.

 

 

[coinman_23885]

I once sold a Rainbow toned Morgan in an ICG MS67 holder. I was convinced it was AT but since it was graded I deferred to the experts and sold the coin for my client. The buyer who was no novice at toners had asked my opinion before buying it and he was convinced it was legit and after seeing it in hand he cracked the coin out and sent it to PCGS where it promptly body bagged as AT. The coin was resold in the genuine holder on Ebay and the new buyer sent it back to ICG where it once again graded MS67. I have seen plenty of nice accurately graded coins in ICG holders but I have seen several no brainer AT coins as well. That's not to say that NGC and PCGS are perfect....but I trust their experts a bit more when spending my own money.

 

I actually remember this piece. It looked very close, but the colors and color progression were off. It's interesting that the piece ended back up in an ICG holder after having bagged three times at PCGS (I am not the original purchaser but have chatted with him - and since he no longer owns it and sold it in a details holder, I don't think it is any secret).

[Kurtdog]

My only experience was one of those pretty 39-D Mercury dimes I bought in an MS68FB ICG holder. I later cracked it and sent to PCGS and got the same grade. I sold it for about 5X-7X sometime later.

So they both thought it was MS68-pretty enough for the markets on their slabs and it's no big news flash PCGS spends more money on the marketing of its slabs than anybody. And it is pretty.

[mguastav001]

My experience of ICG, PCS, and ANAC's are mediocre at best. I have been a buyer, seller, and dealer in rare us coins for over 40 years. All coins I purchase are sent to NGC or PCGS For grading even if the coin is already graded but years ago. My opinion is that any coin that is NGC or PCGS slabbed can be purchased sight unseen. MG.

[ldhair]

Old thread but I'll still reply.  I have found great coins in all kinds of different slabs. I don't care about the plastic as long as I get to see the coin before I'm stuck with it. I'll worry about the plastic when I go to sell it.

With that said, I have a great deal of respect for Skip and Randy at ICG.  

[schultzmeister]

Ive seen good and bad with ICG.. know Randy Cambell for more than 30 years. Good Guy knowlegeable.. Many collectors are snobbish with them being PCGS or NGC only.. AGAIN BUY THE COIN  the holder is a tool

[numisport]

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 9:01 PM, mguastav001 said:

My experience of ICG, PCS, and ANAC's are mediocre at best. I have been a buyer, seller, and dealer in rare us coins for over 40 years. All coins I purchase are sent to NGC or PCGS For grading even if the coin is already graded but years ago. My opinion is that any coin that is NGC or PCGS slabbed can be purchased sight unseen. MG.

As a dealer sight unseen purchases may seem logical. However I would never sell or purchase my coins sight unseen for many reasons. Mainly my coins are above average for the grade and I expect to sell for more than sight unseen prices. I would also expect to pay more than sight unseen prices for the coins I purchase. There is way too much ho hum material for sale these days and this tends to drag down prices which is another reason the hobby is not attracting new blood.

[Six Mile Rick]

Slabbed or not --- Sight unseen is insane. A coin is worth it's beauty so sight unseen is a naive way to go at adding to your collection. No matter who the 3'rd party grader is. if you like the look then ---- barter for it.  

[Conder101]

13 hours ago, numisport said:

My opinion is that any coin that is NGC or PCGS slabbed can be purchased sight unseen.

Would you every really buy them truly sight unseen though?  (Sight unseen does NOT mean you buy it without seeing it and then once it gets there you look at it and decide whether or not to keep it or send it back.  Sight unseen means you buy it without seeing it and as long as the holder says what it is supposed to it is yours, no returns.)  Too many people use the term sight unseen to mean purchased without having seen it in person yet, and if I don't like it I'll send it back.