Does anybody buy the BS from the mint?

[MorganMan]

About the blanks not being available for the Silver Proofs and the Gold proofs?

 

US Mint Press Release

 

Or is the mint just running lean because of cutbacks?

 

In my opinion, the few blanks it would have taken to keep up the Proof AE series would be nothing compared to the bullion mintage.

 

Seems to me cost would not be a factor, since they charge quite a premium on these coins anyway.

 

Sorry, I just do not buy their "story".

 

Opinions welcomed....

 

MM

[$ilverHawk]

The US Mint is following the letter of the law which mandates that they must supply MS coins according to public demand. The coin act does not mandate the public supply of PF coins. Yes, it's a cop out, but the US Mint just like other governmental agencies doesn't respond to potential profitable offerings.

[michael]

i think that they dont have the blanking machines or capacity and have too many irons in the fire so to speak

 

unfortunately they just do not have the

 

staff

expertise

quality control

order fullfillment

website technology and especially so website capacity

 

and also mostly LACKING in plant and mostly EQUIPMENT for the capacity they need for all the different coins/bullion etc. on their plate and they got enough on their plate for all that they are mandated to produce

 

 

[ldhair]

i think that they dont have the blanking machines or capacity and have too many irons in the fire so to speak

 

unfortunately they just do not have the

 

staff

expertise

quality control

order fullfillment

website technology and especially so website capacity

 

and also mostly LACKING in plant and mostly EQUIPMENT for the capacity they need for all the different coins/bullion etc. on their plate and they got enough on their plate for all that they are mandated to produce

 

That's the way I see it.

[DC Dawg]

Production of Eagles are a bit more manual than other coins. While production for business strikes are almost completely automated, Eagle production has a different production line.

 

For the first time in many years, there are idle presses at the US Mint. At the end of April, it was reported that US Mint ceased production of nickels and dimes that would last for six months because of the reduced demand from the Federal Reserve. They continued the production of other coins with changing designs, such as the Bicentennial Lincoln Cent, DC & Territories Quarters, and Presidential Dollars. Recent reports show that the US Mint has not continued striking nickels and dimes while producing fewer quarters than any series since the start of the 50 States Quarter program began in 1999.

 

The Philadelphia Mint has also ceased production of Kennedy Half Dollars. In fact, Denver has out produced Philadelphia by 26.5 million coins.

 

As part of the announcement of the temporary cessation of production, the US Mint said that workers will participate in a six-month productivity maintenance program and capital maintenance in order to keep the rank-and-file workers employed. They are supposed to be able to be trained to produce all of the coins they are required to produce.

 

According to the US Mint’s Annual Reports, American Eagle coins are struck at both Philadelphia and West Point. Bullion issues do not include mint marks making it difficult for collectors to determine where the coins were struck.

 

However, if there are idle coin presses at the Philadelphia Mint and employees not working on the production of business strikes, why has management not allocated the appropriate resources to meet the demand for bullion as well as the demand for collector American Eagle coins?

 

Between 1998 and 2001, the US Mint was running at full production including the new 50 State Quarters and was able to meet the bullion and collector demand for American Eagle coins. In fact, between the two years, the US Mint was producing half-dollars for regular circulation and changed the production of dollars from the Susan B. Anthony dollars to the Sacagawea design. Even with the economic slowdown, the US Mint produced a record number of coins in 2001--there were just under 1 billion Virginia quarters produced.

 

With coin presses silent and the lack of sell outs for this year’s commemorative coins, why can’t the US Mint keep up with the investor and collector demand for American Eagles?

 

Even though there was a coin shortage in the mid-1960s, production at the US Mint exceeds what it is today. In order to find production totals as low as they are this year, we would have to look over 50 years ago when the Philadelphia Mint was in its third building and only producing five types of coins with no commemoratives.

 

Today, the Philadelphia Mint is in a larger building with more state of the art equipment. The same facility that helped produce record numbers of coins less than ten years ago while striking bullion that included platinum American Eagle coins.

 

The only answer is the incompetence of the US Mint’s management.

 

Ed Moy is a political hack appointed by Bush for his service. Moy has no experience running a manufacturing operation nor does he have experience running any large enterprise. Plain and simple, he's a politician. The US Mint under Moy's management has seen a significant decline in quality and customer satisfaction, two areas his predecessor did a great job of doing. Henrietta Holsman Fore did a very good job, but she had a background in manufacturing. She ran manufacturing operations before becoming a politician. Fore, who now works for USAid, was a better choice than Moy.

 

Another problem with the US Mint is Andy Brunhart, the Associate Director. Brunhart is a Fed, not an appointee. But he was hired by Moy because of "His expertise in organizational change." However, before being the AD of the Mint, Brunhart was the Executive Director of the Washington Suburban Sanitation Commission (WSSC), the water and sewer company that covers the Maryland suburbs of Washington, DC (I am a customer). Why did Brunhart leave WSSC to go to the Mint? Because Montgomery County (where I live) was about the sue WSSC to have Brunhart fired.

 

In the five years before the recent recession, Montgomery county pushed for infrastructure improvement before other things happened. After Brunhart left, there was a rash of infrastructure failures that were traced to failure by WSSC for proper maintenance or improper preventative measures. Brunhart was blamed for not following the law, improper planning, and was accused by those within WSSC of being a tyrant. The only thing changed in the Brunhart's five years as executive director are the majority of management positions because many quit rather than working for him.

 

The US Mint will not improve until leadership has changed. While Brunhart could not be fired without cause (incompetence is not a cause), Moy is a political appointee that can be disposed of by the president. Maybe we need to write to the president (president@whitehouse.gov) and let him know that Moy is doing more damage than good.

 

Scott

 

P.S. Before someone complains: yes, these are excerpts from various posts on my blog. So what!

[Conder101]

i think that they dont have the blanking machines or capacity

The mint does not do the blanking of the planchets for the ASE, the planchets are prepared by an outside firm which also produces the planchets for many other private mints as well (possibly for some other government mints as well). Demand for silver has been way up, supplies have been tight and the producer of the planchets has not been able to keep up

 

Since demand for the bullion ASE has been in excess of the supply of planchets and by law the mint HAS to produce the bullion coins to demand ALL of the planchets have had to go to bullion coin production.

 

why has management not allocated the appropriate resources to meet the demand for bullion as well as the demand for collector American Eagle coins?

What resources would those be? Assign workers and presses to the duty of striking ASE on planchets that you don't have? Assign blanking presses to punch blanks out of strip they don't have? The mint no longer has the equipment to make their own strip, they scrapped that back in the late 1970's to increase space for more presses and began depending out outside suppliers for strip and later for ready to strike palnchets such as those used for cents and bullion coins.

 

Between 1998 and 2001, the US Mint was running at full production including the new 50 State Quarters and was able to meet the bullion and collector demand for American Eagle coins.

And production of bullion ASE this year has been more than DOUBLE the highest mintage in the 1998 - 2001 period! And that has been with rationing to the distributoars for much of the year.

[erwindoc]

I am going to start looking north at Canada for mint products. They have some really nice things!

[Walkerfan]

I agree with you. It is total BS. They can make as much as they want and have unlimited resources. They are a branch of the government.

[jtryka]

My opinion is that this is the mint getting their revenge for all the complaints last year about eagle shortages, so rather than solving the problems to produce more, they stick it in the eye of collectors.

[pendragon1998]

They're still making proof britannias at the Royal Mint.

 

 

What the US Mint should do is produce 1000 proofs and sell them by lottery. They'd be worth a fortune. Do you think collectors will be turned off of the entire series because they don't get their proofs this year? I think some will.

 

 

 

[19Lyds]

You folks seem to forget an important aspect with regard to the "American Eagle Program".

 

The metal content MUST come from metals mined in THIS country! Blanks from Australia are not allowed like they are for other program offerings, just not the AMERICAN EAGLE Program.

 

Under the "Public Law 99-185" dated Dec 17th, 1985 known as "The Gold Bullion Act of 1985":

 

“(3) The Secretary shall acquire gold for the coins issued under section 5112(i) of this title by purchase of gold mined from natural deposits in the United States, or in a territory or possession of the United States, within one year after the month in which the ore from which it is derived was mined. The Secretary shall pay not more than the average world price for the gold. In the absence of available supplies of such gold at the average world price, the Secretary may use gold from reserves held by the United States to mint the coins issued under section 5112(i) of this title. The Secretary shall issue such regulations as may be necessary to carry out this paragraph”.

 

silver Eagles were authorized under the same act so despite what everyone feels, the metal (and planchets) for the coins are under strict regulation and simply cannot be purchased from any vendor.

 

I stand a bit corrected in the Silver Eagles were authorized by "Liberty Coin Act of July 9, 1985" but supposedly the wording is the same.

[Conder101]

I do believe there was later legislation (Passed when the silver stockpile was reaching the depletion point) that permitted them to purchase on the open market if domestic supplies could not supply enough metal to meet the demand. (The silver eagle required the metal to come from the strategic stockpile originally. Then later from domestic suppliers and foreign suppliers if domestic couldn't handle it.)

 

But these people who are saying they don't believe the mint, are in effect saying that the mint is deliberately trying to make LESS money than they could by restricting the number of ASE they are producing to less than the market wants and not making any of the even more profitable proof or W unc ASE's?? I thought you folks believed that the mint tried to rip the collectors for every penny they could? If so how can you explain deliberately trying to make LESS money?

[19Lyds]

I need to correct my post as I was quoting something posted in the Internet. The Silver Eagle coin was authorized under the "Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Coin Act of 1985" (Public Law 99-61) and not specifically the "Gold Bullion Coin Act of 1985" (Public Law 99-185).

 

Under "Title II - Liberty Coins" it is specifically stated:

 

 

As for the source of Bullion, the Act states:

 

 

So I am a little confused at this point in time unless, as Conder101 pointed out, the acts have been amended.

[DC Dawg]

I do believe there was later legislation (Passed when the silver stockpile was reaching the depletion point) that permitted them to purchase on the open market if domestic supplies could not supply enough metal to meet the demand. (The silver eagle required the metal to come from the strategic stockpile originally. Then later from domestic suppliers and foreign suppliers if domestic couldn't handle it.)

This is correct under 31 U.S.C. § 5116(b)(2) :

 

"... If it is not economically feasible to obtain such silver, the Secretary may obtain silver for coins authorized under section 5112 (e) from other available sources. The Secretary shall not pay more than the average world price for silver under any circumstances."

 

Therefore, the Treasury Department could have authorized purchases from anywhere in the world to meet the demands of the 31 U.S.C. § 5113(e) , which is the law that authorizes the American Silver Eagle program.

 

The law does say, "Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in quantities sufficient to meet public demand." The law does not specify whether the demand is for bullion or proof coins. In fact, the law does not make any distinction between proof and business strikes. It may be possible to say that the US Mint is in violation of the law by not minting and issuing quantities to meet the demand of the proof market.

 

Scott

[19Lyds]

Thank you for the links ScottB and at this point in time, I'm inclined to go along with your line of thinking.

 

Regardless of manufacturing techinique employed, Business Strike, Business Strike Collectible (i.e. W mintmarked coins), or Proof, all three coins ARE bullion and ARE currently in public "demand".

 

I would expect a "revisitation" of what the laws are regarding these to be conducted by the US Mint and not simply Mr. Moy's interpretation of what he "thinks" the law states or what he has been advised that the law states.

[Conder101]

The law does say, "Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in quantities sufficient to meet public demand." The law does not specify whether the demand is for bullion or proof coins.

I think they are taking the stand that demand for the generic bullion coins is "public" demand while demand for the W unc and Proof coins is "collector" demand not "public"

 

The special numismatic versions are in general not purchased by the general public but by a "special interest group", the collectors. At least that is the way I believe they see it.

[DC Dawg]

The law does say, "Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in quantities sufficient to meet public demand." The law does not specify whether the demand is for bullion or proof coins.

I think they are taking the stand that demand for the generic bullion coins is "public" demand while demand for the W unc and Proof coins is "collector" demand not "public"

 

The special numismatic versions are in general not purchased by the general public but by a "special interest group", the collectors. At least that is the way I believe they see it.

Considering how I have seen government lawyers interpret the law, a case that could be made that the "collector" is a subset of the "public" and, thus, in demand--just like the investor is assume to be part of the public.

 

I've had this discussion with a friend who is also an attorney (I don't hold that against him! ). I would like to have this conversation with someone like David Ganz who is a lawyer and a numismatist!

 

Scott

[MorganMan]

"The special numismatic versions are in general not purchased by the general public but by a "special interest group", the collectors. At least that is the way I believe they see it."

 

 

With today's economy, lots of folks in the USA can not afford regular American Eagles.So, does that make the ones that can a "special interest group".

 

I would also go so far as to say that silver eagle investors ARE a special interest group.

 

 

MM

[Oldtrader3]

i think that they dont have the blanking machines or capacity and have too many irons in the fire so to speak

 

unfortunately they just do not have the

 

staff

expertise

quality control

order fullfillment

website technology and especially so website capacity

 

and also mostly LACKING in plant and mostly EQUIPMENT for the capacity they need for all the different coins/bullion etc. on their plate and they got enough on their plate for all that they are mandated to produce

 

 

Funny post, Michael!