PCGS vs NGC PF70 Prices 1 1

[Dahms-migration]

Can anyone shed some light on why PCGS pf70 coins sell at such a higher premium over NGC. I thought the two companies were basically equivalent.

On average do NGC coins typically grade the same if regraded by PCGS?

[dean1345]

I don't collect coins that could possibly get a MS70. Rumor is that NGC is much more liberal with the MS70 designation than their counterpart PCGS.

[MarkFeld]

In many cases it's due to slightly different standards, leading to more NGC examples having been graded/being available. In other instances, it's probably just due to perception.

[HiHoAudio]

Mark is right, perception has a lot to do with it.

 

I cracked open an 1895-S Australian Gold Soverign that PCGS certified as MS-62 and NGC graded it MS-61. So they aren't always that liberal. And I don't own any MS-70 coins either.

 

For my money NGC is the most accurate coin grading service, followed by PCGS and then ANACS. I may not always agree 100% with the grades that NGC assigns but I feel they do come the closest.

 

And now that they grade "problem" coins I doubt I'll ever use ANACS again.

[WoodenJefferson]

"Kool-Aid" drinkers (surrounded up masses of collectors who have been brain washed into thinking PCGS is by far superior to any other grading company) like robots, line up at dealer tables like lemmings and purchase gradeflated/overpriced slab after slab of PCGS entombed coins.

 

Realistic collectors in most instances, often revert back to the old mantra, "Buy the coin, not the slab."

 

When it comes to coins, both NGC and PCGS are the trade marks of excellence.

 

I'm not as subtle as Mark.

[TomB]

Both have their own proprietary grading standards and these standards are most obviously different in the 60-70 point range. They overlap a great deal within grades, but the upper and lower end of each grade range might be equal to a different grade from one company to the next. For example, a high end 64 at one company might be a low end 65 at the other company. This difference becomes apparent when one looks at the populations of coins graded 70 by the two companies and can be interpreted to mean that NGC has a slightly lower threshhold for the grade than PCGS. Hence, PCGS coins in this grade garner more money.

[jason888]

My thought is that PCGS only allows their coins in their registry, whereas NGC will allow either NGC or PCGS.

so the demand for PCGS 70s should be higher.

[RareSov]

PCGS sov wasn't nice when it came back PVC contamination. Glad I didn't crack it. Kool aid drinker can have it..

 

As for 70, Mark put it best. Sometimes the standard is different. For the Ultra High Relief, NGC is the stricter of the two..

[Raybo55]

No such thing as a "perfect" coin IMHO.

 

In the olden days 65 was the best that the TPGS offered.

[MarkFeld]

No such thing as a "perfect" coin IMHO.

 

In the olden days 65 was the best that the TPGS offered.

The standards for a grade of 70 don't require perfection. I think that's a shame.

[BillJones]

When comes to market dominance, PCGS leads the field in high grade modern coins by a wide margin. There are at least two reasons for this.

 

First, I think that the PCGS registry is more prestigious, and since they only allow their product in their registry, you must buy their coins to participate.

 

Second, PCGS gives out far fewer PR-70s and NGC. This might have something to do with grading standards, but I think that it also has something to do with market control. If you keep the number of available pieces down, the prices will be higher. Therefore PCGS drives up the price of its PR-70 product by limiting the supply.

 

I have only two PR-70 coins and both are NGC coins. I bought the nickel because I wanted to say I had one PR-70 graded coin. I bought the quarter because it cost only a few dollars more than a PR-69, and I was in the mood to fill the hole. You can judge what you think of them for the grade.

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Can anyone shed some light on why PCGS pf70 coins sell at such a higher premium over NGC. I thought the two companies were basically equivalent.

On average do NGC coins typically grade the same if regraded by PCGS?

It's the same old story. A PCGS PF-70 sells for more simply because it costs more. The PCGS goal is not to grade those coin properly, but rather to manipulate the market in 70s. Therefore, you have to submit far more coins to finally get the 70, which of course leads to higher cost (more slabbing fees). Therefore, you MUST charge more at the retail level to recoup those costs.

 

The best bet is to save your money, and always buy the NGC 70 coin.

[michael]

don't know

 

but crack both the ngc and pcgs both 70 graded same type and date coins out of their respective holders and they are now worth the same

 

so as james said pick a nice ngc 70 coin and save yourself some $$$$$

 

with pcgs it is all a numbers game with keeping the pops artifically low

 

think about this as per the below

 

what would happen to current pcgs registry players if for some reason some of their top pop coins that are either pop 1 or 2 would somehow turn into pop 4 or 5 or 6+ coins in the next 5 months due to submissions of the same type and date mintmark medal comp. ?? their prices paid would be greatly downgraded and they would be screaming to pcgs hence the numbers are controlled for certain series

 

 

break these pop tops that are 69 and 70 out of their respective holders and see what the current market value becomes

 

 

in other words only use discretionary income with pop top 69 and 70 coins with money you can afford to lose and you are playing for fun

 

 

if you cant do this then collect super nice hand picked coins graded a point down from the jump in price to 69 and 70 coins

 

 

 

[Tradedollarnut]

No such thing as a "perfect" coin IMHO.

 

In the olden days 65 was the best that the TPGS offered.

The standards for a grade of 70 don't require perfection. I think that's a shame.

 

Define perfection.

[Tradedollarnut]

The best bet is to save your money, and always buy the NGC 70 coin.

 

Nope - the best bet is to cherrypick a nice 69 coin regardless of the holder its in. In most instances, your eyes won't be able to tell the difference between a top end 69 and a low end 70 - but your pocketbook will!

[MarkFeld]

No such thing as a "perfect" coin IMHO.

 

In the olden days 65 was the best that the TPGS offered.

The standards for a grade of 70 don't require perfection. I think that's a shame.

 

Define perfection.

The lack of imperfections, which are allowed under the standards for a grade of 70 at PCGS and NGC. Here is NGC's standard: "NGC defines a Mint State or Proof 70 coin as having no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification."

 

[DC Dawg]

The best bet is to save your money, and always buy the NGC 70 coin.

 

Nope - the best bet is to cherrypick a nice 69 coin regardless of the holder its in. In most instances, your eyes won't be able to tell the difference between a top end 69 and a low end 70 - but your pocketbook will!

 

OMG! TDN and I agree on something!!

 

Unless you are putting together registry sets, buy the coin and not the holder!

 

With certain exception of some rare coins, coins I have for registry sets, and a few others, I am about to liquidate my slabbed coins. I would rather have the albums since I find them easier to see and enjoy. I find it more satisfying to look at the complete album of Peace Dollars than the individual holders. But that's just me... YMMV.

 

Scott

[Schatzy]

There is a big price difference between PCGS and NGC in the 90's and 00'S coins.

If you look at the coins from the 80's there is really no price difference. Some times it is

even cheaper to get the PCGS coins in PF70 because PCGS has graded more of them

than NGC.

[Tradedollarnut]

No such thing as a "perfect" coin IMHO.

 

In the olden days 65 was the best that the TPGS offered.

The standards for a grade of 70 don't require perfection. I think that's a shame.

 

Define perfection.

The lack of imperfections, which are allowed under the standards for a grade of 70 at PCGS and NGC. Here is NGC's standard: "NGC defines a Mint State or Proof 70 coin as having no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification."

 

With our current manufacturing technology, there's no such thing as a 'lack of imperfections' in a coin. Pull out the scanning electron microscope and you will always find some. So in regards to coins, perhaps a lack of VISIBLE perfections is just fine as a definition and thus the 5x magnification makes a lot of sense and I don't think it's a shame at all.

[MarkFeld]

No such thing as a "perfect" coin IMHO.

 

In the olden days 65 was the best that the TPGS offered.

The standards for a grade of 70 don't require perfection. I think that's a shame.

 

Define perfection.

The lack of imperfections, which are allowed under the standards for a grade of 70 at PCGS and NGC. Here is NGC's standard: "NGC defines a Mint State or Proof 70 coin as having no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification."

 

With our current manufacturing technology, there's no such thing as a 'lack of imperfections' in a coin. Pull out the scanning electron microscope and you will always find some. So in regards to coins, perhaps a lack of VISIBLE perfections is just fine as a definition and thus the 5x magnification makes a lot of sense and I don't think it's a shame at all.

I still think it's a shame. If that's how our current manufacturing technology is, so be it - just don't award the grade of 70, which used to stand for perfection.

[James_OldeTowne]

No such thing as a "perfect" coin IMHO.

 

In the olden days 65 was the best that the TPGS offered.

The standards for a grade of 70 don't require perfection. I think that's a shame.

 

Define perfection.

The lack of imperfections, which are allowed under the standards for a grade of 70 at PCGS and NGC. Here is NGC's standard: "NGC defines a Mint State or Proof 70 coin as having no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification."

 

With our current manufacturing technology, there's no such thing as a 'lack of imperfections' in a coin. Pull out the scanning electron microscope and you will always find some. So in regards to coins, perhaps a lack of VISIBLE perfections is just fine as a definition and thus the 5x magnification makes a lot of sense and I don't think it's a shame at all.

I still think it's a shame. If that's how our current manufacturing technology is, so be it - just don't award the grade of 70, which used to stand for perfection.

Could not have been said better than that.

[Tradedollarnut]

I still think it's a shame. If that's how our current manufacturing technology is, so be it - just don't award the grade of 70, which used to stand for perfection.

 

5x probably used to be the extent of our available magnification in the hobby - why do you insist on using the old standard of perfection with the new standard of magnification?

[MarkFeld]

I still think it's a shame. If that's how our current manufacturing technology is, so be it - just don't award the grade of 70, which used to stand for perfection.

 

5x probably used to be the extent of our available magnification in the hobby - why do you insist on using the old standard of perfection with the new standard of magnification?

Because the grading companies that award the grades, up to an including 70, have the ability to use magnification greater than 5X. And if they didn't have such ability, they shouldn't include grades whose determination relies upon it.

[Tradedollarnut]

I still think it's a shame. If that's how our current manufacturing technology is, so be it - just don't award the grade of 70, which used to stand for perfection.

 

5x probably used to be the extent of our available magnification in the hobby - why do you insist on using the old standard of perfection with the new standard of magnification?

Because the grading companies that award the grades, up to an including 70, have the ability to use magnification greater than 5X. And if they didn't have such ability, they shouldn't include grades whose determination relies upon it.

 

Just because they have the ability to use an electron microscope to ensure perfection - should they?

[James_OldeTowne]

Just because they have the ability to use an electron microscope to ensure perfection - should they?

I believe that use of an electron microscope would guarantee realization that perfection is a mere illusion, as is the "70" grade. However, it certainly is a useful marketing tool, of which PCGS takes full advantage (and NGC to a lesser extent).

[James_OldeTowne]

On average do NGC coins typically grade the same if regraded by PCGS?

By the way, since nobody seems to have directly addressed this question: Aside from the "70" factor, NGC coins typically do grade the same as PCGS coins, no matter what others may tell you.

[MarkFeld]

On average do NGC coins typically grade the same if regraded by PCGS?

By the way, since nobody seems to have directly addressed this question: Aside from the "70" factor, NGC coins typically do grade the same as PCGS coins, no matter what others may tell you.

Often, but certainly not even close to almost all of the time. And I'd give the same answer if you asked "On average do PCGS coins typically grade the same if regraded out of their holders by PCGS? Or "On average do NGC coins typically grade the same if regraded out of their holders by NGC? "

[James_OldeTowne]

I'll bet that the big majority of MS-63 Walkers, Washington quarters, Morgan dollars and Liberty nickels grade the same at both companies, just as some examples. I would bet that for a random sampling of 1000 such coins, 900 are interchangeably graded.

[Tradedollarnut]

On average do NGC coins typically grade the same if regraded by PCGS?

By the way, since nobody seems to have directly addressed this question: Aside from the "70" factor, NGC coins typically do grade the same as PCGS coins, no matter what others may tell you.

 

Actually [and it's not just semantics] it would be more proper to say that NGC typically grades coins the same as PCGS - however, I don't think it correct to say that NGC coins [available in the marketplace] typically grade the same as PCGS coins simply because of the ad nauseum crossover tries before the coins ever are available for sale. This sucks all the solid for the grade coins out of NGC holders leaving the lower end coins and giving the illusion that NGC grades far worse than they do.

 

With that said, it's readily obvious in some series they simply have different standards - such as proof seated dollars. Try to find a PCGS coin higher than PR64 - you really can't cuz they're all in NGC PF66-67 holders.

[Tradedollarnut]

I'll bet that the big majority of MS-63 Walkers, Washington quarters, Morgan dollars and Liberty nickels grade the same at both companies, just as some examples. I would bet that for a random sampling of 1000 such coins, 900 are interchangeably graded.

 

Probably true as these coins have very little crossover incentive.