1811 Bust - Guess the grade and overton

[Mark T]

I had this Bust re slabbed so that the Overton would be listed, also I wanted it in a Edge View.

 

Guess the grade and Overton.

 

I am working on my camera skills , getting the lighting just right especially for this type of toned coin is difficult. On page 89 of Mark Goodmans book Numismatic Photography there is an 1811 Bust that looks similar to mine. However that coin is a better grade and is slightly lighter in tone.

 

I wil get better picture once I learn how to best adjust the settings on my camera.

[physics-fan3.14]

I'll put it at a very nice 55. I love the toning on that baby.

[Schatzy]

I love it!! (thumbs U

 

I would say AU-58

I like the die crack thru states of am.

[dean1345]

AU-58 and definately eye candy. (thumbs u

[Coindude]

Premium and 58.

[michael]

au-63

 

above average eye appeal, toning, strike and lustre

 

 

in many ways the coin is choice unc. lustre surfaces and marks looks unc. at first glance

 

but the coin does have slight friction

 

hence au-63

[Mark T]

I was going to wait for a few more people to guess but when I say Michael’s Au 63 I had to post the grade. I knew a lot of people would post Au 58 , I wanted to wait for at least one MS or Au 63 post.

If I did not know the grade of this coin I would guess Au 58 or MS 63.

I looked at this for a long time when I purchased it for hints of friction.

I could not see any, but obviously that does not mean that I could be wrong !!

I love the color of this coin, under the right lighting this coin looks simply amazing.

Under that heavy toning there is great luster.

This is an R 4 Overton .

[michael]

okie in fact remember it was from a photo

 

and not agreat photo

 

in hand with those looks andno hint of rub the coin in fact might be a great solid for the grade ms 63

 

and from looking at the coin in the ms63 holder in hand there is a really good chance the coin is a true choice unc>

 

as for me it has abetter than average chance in hand sight seen

 

UNFORTUNATELY I CANT SEE IT IN HAND SIGHT SEEN

 

BUT IF I WAS OFFERED THIS COIN FOR SALE LETS SAY AS MS63 I WOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM SPENDING THE TIME AND MONEY TO HAVE IT SENT TO ME AS IT HAS A BETTER THAN AVERAGE CHANCE BASED ON THE PHOTOS OF MEETING MY GRADE, EYE APPEAL and EXPECTATIONS AS AN MS63

 

AGAIN I WOULD NEED TO SEE IN IN HAND

 

 

 

 

 

 

[michael]

if to your eye there is no rub and the thick lustre underneath the toning suggests to me the coin is currectly graded as ms63 with no dipping or rub

 

you would see the rub in hand

 

and yes from the photo does appear to not have rub

 

this coin has a much better than average chance of being a true ms 63 in hand

 

again i would need to see it in hand but i would be surprised if it did not meet my approval for ms 63

 

great coin man oh man i would love to see this coin sight seen

 

 

[michael]

the photo is dark over the cheek, breast, top of cap area and this is where the rub would be

 

give me a better photo and i can most likely tell also with the thick skins and you can see this from the photo more than likely no hairlines

 

so you might have a killer 63

[Mark T]

I will try to get a super macro photo up tomorrow.

I need to adjust my camera settings for a better picture of this type of coin.

 

Send me lets say $ 4000 (premium becuase of overton and the toning) and I will mail it to you , that way you can see it in hand in person (j/k)

[coinman1794]

The theory behind still calling a coin with "friction" Mint State and not AU58 is that it occures by means other than circulation, and usually scrapes the high points, rather than wearing them and dulling the mint luster. The scraping is then counted against the grade as any other type of abrasion would be. Thus, one usually sees coins with heavy friction like this 1811 in MS61 and MS62 holders, because the high points are heavily abraided. I'm surprised to see MS63 on this coin - based strictly on the pictures (it could merely be weak strike, after all).

[MBA101]

I would have guessed AU 55ishas well based on the pics. But you know what they say about grading from pics.

[Mark T]

The theory behind still calling a coin with "friction" Mint State and not AU58 is that it occures by means other than circulation, and usually scrapes the high points, rather than wearing them and dulling the mint luster. The scraping is then counted against the grade as any other type of abrasion would be. Thus, one usually sees coins with heavy friction like this 1811 in MS61 and MS62 holders, because the high points are heavily abraided. I'm surprised to see MS63 on this coin - based strictly on the pictures (it could merely be weak strike, after all).

 

Seriously I can not seefriction on this coin. Based on my not so great pictures where do you see it ? Another point is that even though this was just a re holder I do no think NGC would have re slabbed it as MS 63 if they though it was Au 58. It was in QC for a while as a I had also asked it be reviewed for a STAR.

[Coindude]

Mark I think it's a great coin, and I like many others called this coin AU. I'm ok with the grade of MS, as I'm sure most others would be. This is just one of those coins that's a tweener! Anyhow, my personal area of concern were the curls in the hair and the cap on the eagle. Not that there's rub there, but from the photos there could have been. Those areas look a little flat and have no luster, at least from the photos, and I was assuming there was rub there and I'll bet that's what a lot of others were thinking.

[Mark T]

Mark I think it's a great coin, and I like many others called this coin AU. I'm ok with the grade of MS, as I'm sure most others would be. This is just one of those coins that's a tweener! Anyhow, my personal area of concern were the curls in the hair and the cap on the eagle. Not that there's rub there, but from the photos there could have been. Those areas look a little flat and have no luster, at least from the photos, and I was assuming there was rub there and I'll bet that's what a lot of others were thinking.

 

I think the general consensus is many MS 63 Bust Halves are tweeners :

 

[coinman1794]

The theory behind still calling a coin with "friction" Mint State and not AU58 is that it occures by means other than circulation, and usually scrapes the high points, rather than wearing them and dulling the mint luster. The scraping is then counted against the grade as any other type of abrasion would be. Thus, one usually sees coins with heavy friction like this 1811 in MS61 and MS62 holders, because the high points are heavily abraided. I'm surprised to see MS63 on this coin - based strictly on the pictures (it could merely be weak strike, after all).

 

Seriously I can not seefriction on this coin. Based on my not so great pictures where do you see it ? Another point is that even though this was just a re holder I do no think NGC would have re slabbed it as MS 63 if they though it was Au 58. It was in QC for a while as a I had also asked it be reviewed for a STAR.

 

The blunted high points with the dull pink color appear to be friction, if not wear, strictly from the pictures. A simple solution to this is to determine whether or not there is luster over these flat spots. I would expect Au58 or MS61 at NGC today, from what I am seeing. Again, it might be entirely different in person.

[James_OldeTowne]

I didn't submit a guess, but can honestly say that I would have been way off if I would have .

[Mark T]

I would take that as you would have been in the Au 55 camp

It is often hard enough to grade a coin like this in hand, never mind from a less then adequate picture.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

I would take that as you would have been in the Au 55 camp

It is often hard enough to grade a coin like this in hand, never mind from a less then adequate picture.

Nope, I would have been overgrading the coin by a couple of points !!

 

 

Which is a roundabout way of saying I really like it.

[michael]

I will try to get a super macro photo up tomorrow.

I need to adjust my camera settings for a better picture of this type of coin.

 

Send me lets say $ 4000 (premium becuase of overton and the toning) and I will mail it to you , that way you can see it in hand in person (j/k)

 

great coin and well worth the money if in hand has the great lustre and coloration along with no friction on the high points and it is a good possibility (thumbs u

 

it is too bad we cant see this coin in hand sight seen

 

 

[michael]

also looking forward to your new photo

[HiHoAudio]

Beautiful coin, I was going to guess MS64.

 

The details and toning on the obverse are amazing.

[MBA101]

The way your pics reflect the luster, it appears to have 55 luster to me. You would need to form the full cartwheel effect with lighting for me to be able to grade it MS from a pic...

[Mark T]

http://s585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/guitarman102357/?action=view&current=1811-bust-observe-large.jpg

 

http://s585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/guitarman102357/?action=view&current=1811-bust-reverse-large.jpg

[Mark T]

The way your pics reflect the luster, it appears to have 55 luster to me. You would need to form the full cartwheel effect with lighting for me to be able to grade it MS from a pic...

 

There is lots of Luster under that dark toning. This coin without a doubt was the most difficult coin I ever attempted to photograph. I took over 100 pictures and to be honest I was not really happy with any of them. Getting the lighting right without reflections was a nightmare. Then getting close enough to pick up details with out a blurry image was just as difficult. The large ones I posted on photobucket were acceptable enough. I am now taking this coin to the safe deposit box !!

[coinman1794]

After seeing those images, Im comfortable calling the high points friction and not wear. And, the extent of friction is less than it seemed before (the rest of the lfatness was weak strike) and I would expect an MS62-63 today. Probably MS62.

[MBA101]

No matter what its a great coin!

[michael]

http://s585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/guitarman102357/?action=view&current=1811-bust-observe-large.jpg

 

http://s585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/guitarman102357/?action=view&current=1811-bust-reverse-large.jpg

 

looked at your photo bucket pics and they are better but not great but i cant take photos myself and i have no DOUBT AN EXTREMELY HARD COIN TO PHOTOGRAPH; and i am sure the coin is mucho better in hand

 

from the new photos i can tell the coin is a great original coin with good pull away toning and also i have no problems with this coin in an ms 63 holder