Guess the grade on this 1795 FH Dollar.

[James_OldeTowne]

What would be a fair price to pay for one of these in VG-F in a geniune holder with a minor problem? I would love to add one of these to my collection but I think that any problem free coin would be out of my price range.

Here is a 1795 in a PCGS "genuine" holder to be sold in the upcoming Scotsman auction. I graded it as having F-12 details, but that's conservative. PCGS indicated "damage", but we felt certain there was actually a planchet flaw, as struck. However, the coin has been inoffensively cleaned (as have many bust dollars).

[Coindude]

Wow, that's a gorgeous coin even with the cleaning. I'll have to agree with you there James. I do believe that to be a planchet flaw. Looks like some sort of lamination but it also looks as if there was a gas pocket in the metal that caused a void of sorts. Great coin and the estimated price is very tempting!!

[michael]

your most welcome

 

unfortunately the coin is in great demand and with early federal coinage that starts to wear down below fine this is where the coins start totake on a scudsy look to them not all but most; and add to the fact that as the coin wears you get different wear patterns on early federal issues below fine like one side has full rims the other side does not from wear and weak strike: a weak strike when struck is now a flat blankspot but the timethe weak strike area wears down to below fine, etc.

 

or you get really smooth surfaces because the coin is so worn that it develops hairlines or it gets an edge bump or just starts to look plain fugly/ugly

 

so it is actually really REALLY HARD TO FIND ANYTHING WITH DECENT LET ALONE GREAT EYE APPEAL IN GRADES BELOW FINE VG EVEN GOOD

 

now they do exist perfect "gem circ." in fine vg good but REALLY RARE TO FIND AS SUCH and EXPENSIVE ALSO the handful of coins that look like this are of course less money/more AFFORDABLE are held tightly by collectors knowing if they part with it they might never be able to find let alone afford an example and EVEN IF THEY DO SELL THE DEMAND IS SO GREAT IT WILL usually NEVER MAKE IT TO A DEALERS CASE for consideration

 

 

[michael]

good luck

[Mark T]

It did not cross with the minimum VF 20. Reason given by NGC – "Wear" . Looks like they did not take into consideration the die state of this coin.

I requested they take a second look at it and make sure they take into consideration the coins die state. Also I wanted to make sure they saw I listed VF 20 as a minimum grade.

If all else fails then I will submit this to PCGS in the fall when I go to Coin Fest .

If PCGS won’t cross it then I will keep it in the ICG Holder as I do like the coin.

[coinman1794]

NGC has been unreasonably strict on Early US silver since fall of last year. I made a post demonstrating the huge disparage in results between NGC and PCGS on Bust halves to demonstrate this. I'm not surprised by your result, and I do not agree with it.

[James_OldeTowne]

It did not cross with the minimum VF 20. Reason given by NGC – "Wear" . Looks like they did not take into consideration the die state of this coin.

I requested they take a second look at it and make sure they take into consideration the coins dies state. Also I wanted to make sure they saw I listed VF 20 as a minimum grade.

If all else fails then I will submit this to PCGS in the fall when I go to Coin Fest .

If PCGS won’t cross it then I will keep it in the ICG Holder as I do like the coin.

As you'll remember from my first post, I would tend to agree with NGC that VF-20 is a bit generous.

[Mark T]

Here is the same die state as mine and this coin made it into a VF 25 PCGS holder:

 

Ebay # 110387321635

 

This one has about the same amount of detail left as mine.

 

As I said in one of my early posts I have seen this coin in F 15 – VF 25 holders that look similar to mine.

 

Michael’s explanation of this die state along with what I have seen is enough for me to feel this belongs in a VF 20 holder. Now if I could only get NGC to agree!!

 

Has there ever been a book published on FH Coins ??

 

 

 

[RI AL]

I just popped in and found your post. The coin looks VERY similar in wear to my "unfortunate" 1795 dollar which was graded VF 20 by SEGS. I don't know if SEGS considers die states but I thought that the grade on the slab was a bit high. I'm going with VG-10 to F-12 on your dollar. Nice looking coin.

 

RI AL

[Mark T]

I submitted this coin to PCGS last week at coin fest .

It did cross at a VF 20

 

[dean1345]

Mark.....Glad it came back VF20.

[Mark T]

Me to !!! NGC rejected it at VF 20 , PCGS got it right .

I could have kept this in the ICG VF 30 holder but I would rather have it in a correctly graded PCGS or NGC holder. As Michael posted this variety often looks soft because of strike. As I previously posted I have seen 1795 FH’s that looked just like mine in VF 15 – VF 25 holders from both NGC and PCGS. I will wait a year for CAC to look at it, shipping this coin back and forth is expensive. I paid $ 4050 for this coin, add $ 200 for both NGC and PCGS submission fees for a total of $ 4250 . PCGS retail is $ 5200, Wholesale is around $ 5500. I did well over all. Most of these in a PCGS or NGC holder 20 sell for - $ 4500 - $ 5500.

Price paid is not as important because this is one of those coins I won’t sell.

 

[michael]

good for you!!

 

a nice solid for the grade vf-20

[MarkFeld]

Me to !!! NGC rejected it at VF 20 , PCGS got it right .

I could have kept this in the ICG VF 30 holder but I would rather have it in a correctly graded PCGS or NGC holder. As Michael posted this variety often looks soft because of strike. As I previously posted I have seen 1795 FH’s that looked just like mine in VF 15 – VF 25 holders from both NGC and PCGS. I will wait a year for CAC to look at it, shipping this coin back and forth is expensive. I paid $ 4050 for this coin, add $ 200 for both NGC and PCGS submission fees for a total of $ 4250 . PCGS retail is $ 5200, Wholesale is around $ 5500. I did well over all. Most of these in a PCGS or NGC holder 20 sell for - $ 4500 - $ 5500.

Price paid is not as important because this is one of those coins I won’t sell.

Whew, I'm finally off the hook

[Mark T]

Me to !!! NGC rejected it at VF 20 , PCGS got it right .

I could have kept this in the ICG VF 30 holder but I would rather have it in a correctly graded PCGS or NGC holder. As Michael posted this variety often looks soft because of strike. As I previously posted I have seen 1795 FH’s that looked just like mine in VF 15 – VF 25 holders from both NGC and PCGS. I will wait a year for CAC to look at it, shipping this coin back and forth is expensive. I paid $ 4050 for this coin, add $ 200 for both NGC and PCGS submission fees for a total of $ 4250 . PCGS retail is $ 5200, Wholesale is around $ 5500. I did well over all. Most of these in a PCGS or NGC holder 20 sell for - $ 4500 - $ 5500.

Price paid is not as important because this is one of those coins I won’t sell.

Whew, I'm finally off the hook

 

 

And I thought the cross over only made my day !

 

[Mark T]

[physics-fan3.14]

Mmmmmmmm

[Count_Erfit]

Two I wish I'd kept. Although the ANACS would not cross.

 

Along with the present F15 that I have now.

 

I wouldn't mind having SEVERAL 1795s.

 

[MBA101]

Do I get a prize?

 

It amazes me how NGC can go from having a reputation on early Bust material of overgrading all too often, to now having a reputation of undergrading all too often. And I still hate the fact that grading is based on a very brief viewing of a coin without doing any research on die states/varieties etc. Maybe a requirement for grading early bust coinage should be attribution by the graders so that they know every thing about every die state and die variety. And charge an extra 10 bucks for said bust coinage. Maybe we would start seeing some consistancy...