Will this bust half grade?

[fishfinder]

I would like to purchase this 50/UNI but not sure of the concentric line(s) on the obverse. Does anyone know about these? They appear mint made.

Thanks

[bsshog40]

Well this is a just a guess for me. I don't know anything about the lines but the rim damage looks bad enough to me that may BB it. Others that have had more grading of these done may show me wrong. Good luck.

[fishfinder]

I believe the rim deformation is from the lettering on the side. The line may be a die crack but I don't know the die marriages that well. It is an O-101. Actually, those lines look to be a die clash of the E PLURIBUS UNUM ribbon.

[L1ncolnF4n]

Possible clash on the inside field b/w eagle's right wing and shield? I am seeing a letter S and possibly an E. Rim is ugly...it would be a close call, maybe detail grades. Aside from the wear on the hair and the feathers, it's a very nice looking piece with great color.

[SteveInNebr]

That's definitely a clash above the date and to the right of the bust. And there looks like a nice Star clash between 50 and C. on the reverse. Betcha a 2009 Lincoln this Bustie is also 15-20 deg rotated. The end of the ribbon clash on front is at 3 o'clock...should be at 4.

The rim is a whole 'nother matter...Ugly is a good word for it.

[James_OldeTowne]

I think it's a no-grade coin for multiple reasons. However, I wouldn't care in the least. It's the kind of coin that is wonderful UNcertified!

[Coindude]

I agree with James. But a couple of the reasons would be that it's been cleaned and that it's AT'ed.

[fishfinder]

Thanks all. I agree it should be left ungraded and enjoyed for what it is.

[L1ncolnF4n]

Wasn't sure if it was AT by those pics, thought it might have just been a bad camera angle...

[MBA101]

If it is not hairlined (under the toning) and the bump above the S on the reverse was not caused by mishandling (the other bumps are edge lettering caused for sure), then you have a shot. I would grade it an XF 45 ish. And you never know when they will BB for AT. But the toning does not look too heavy where it would be a problem and also looks like something I have seen many times before in slabs.

[Mark T]

I tend to agree with you about the AT , although I think that type of color might be considered suspicious . The rim dings look like the real issue to me .

A while back I sent in this 1818 Bust that was sold to me as original from Stacks. It came back as altered surfaces from PCGS. It is a nice looking coin with a similar look to this one. I decided to keep it which is exactly what I would do with the 1813 Bust if I owned it. When my coin came back from PCGS I thought it was bagged because of the observe stain . I believed it was a crude attempt to putty up a defect on the coin . I was told by my local dealer that it was probably a grease stain, and the coin might have been cleaned in an attempt to remove it !

[coinman1794]

I tend to agree with you about the AT , although I think that type of color might be considered suspicious . The rim dings look like the real issue to me .

A while back I sent in this 1818 Bust that was sold to me as original from Stacks. It came back as altered surfaces from PCGS. It is a nice looking coin with a similar look to this one. I decided to keep it which is exactly what I would do with the 1813 Bust if I owned it. When my coin came back from PCGS I thought it was bagged because of the observe stain . I believed it was a crude attempt to putty up a defect on the coin . I was told by my local dealer that it was probably a grease stain, and the coin might have been cleaned in an attempt to remove it !

 

 

The 1813 50C doesnt seem to have rim damage, it appears that all marks are from the edge lettering machine.

 

The 1818 has a planchet grease stain, as made. This grease is either worked into the metal during planchet manufacture, or struck into the coin when minted. It, alone, should not have BB'd the coin. As you suggested, there may have been an attempt to clean the stain away that resulted in damage...one cannot tell from the image.

 

One of the neat things about the series, and something that many people dont realize, is just how crudely some of the earlier pieces were made. Crimped "pie crust" edge waves and lettering machine dents, as well as plan streaks are very common. They can either add character or detract from the eye appeal, depending on location and severity.

[Brando]

I believe this coin will BB for several reasons.

 

1. The rim is obviously pretty mangled

2. There is evidence of an old cleaning.

 

I do not believe the toning is AT, but rather a product of the cleaning and subsequent retoning.

[fishfinder]

Thanks again all. Seems like there is a chance this isn't a problem coin. The dealer says no hairlines (he is pretty reputable). States all rim deformation struck by lettering machine. Weather AT or not seems to be at the mercy of certification. The coloring I see as envelope or roll (did they do rolls back then?).

[MBA101]

No rolls. If the dealer has the expertise and says this coin should grade, then if you are so inclined, submit it.There is still always a shot at a BB, even if there is nothing wrong with the coin (a grader in a bad mood, etc). I would go for the NGC edge view, with those interesting rim nicks...

[BillJones]

If the dealer has the expertise and says this coin should grade, then if you are so inclined, submit it.

 

Dealers submit coins for grading with "a hope and a prayer" all the time looking for something to get a grade. Sometimes they do it time and time again.

 

If the colors in the photo are true to the coin, I think that this is AT and should not grade. But sometimes things work out. I sent this piece in years ago after a dealer told me that it would get a body bag and yet it got the AU-58 grade that I suspected it would.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Bill, does this auto-adjusted image look closer to the real thing?

 

[BillJones]

The picture makes the coin look a littler brighter than it was, but that's not a bad image. The surfaces on the reverse were a bit more like satin.

[coinman1794]

Bill, does this auto-adjusted image look closer to the real thing?

 

 

This coin doesnt seem AT to me. I can definitively say, however, that it was dipped and is retoning, and that it's in the beginning stages of that process. Most bust halves that show a little skin (are light in color) have been dipped and most have retoned.