SEGS 1795 dollar ...the Continuing Saga

[braddick]

Big question (possibly I missed the answer?) is:

 

Who now owns the coin and is it still slabbed with SEGS?

[jgrinz]

Big question (possibly I missed the answer?) is:

 

Who now owns the coin and is it still slabbed with SEGS?

 

I would think SEGS owns an expensive "learning" tool now ...

[RI AL]

The coin is in the possession of SEGS if I understood Mr. Briggs correctly. I believe that it will be sent elsewhere (don't know where) and used as a learning tool because I don't think there are other counterfeits made 10 years ago that are known about. I sure hope I got the only one!!! I would hate to think of other collectors out there with darn good fakes.

 

RI AL

[jgrinz]

This is a DIRECT message to AL ... Collect or NOT it does not mean you have to leave this fine coimmunity!

 

We enjoy your input

[realone]

RIAL,

if I were you I would consider this a cheap but positive education, you made it happen, your drive made for a positive outcome, and you learned more about what you collect in the process. So why abandon ship when you are becoming wiser. Also any one would have been fooled, and if you are only buying pcgs and ngc coins you can increase the odds of not getting hurt financially and the process would have been a lot less stressful and time consuming. This incident is really only a beneficial learning course in your numismatic studies imho.

[RI AL]

realone, jgrinz, Warning...warning...yet ANOTHER RI AL

 

Yes, I agree..recent events HAVE been a learning experience, but I do not blame my current state of disappointment in the hobby on this one event. It has been coming on for a while in some of the things I have seen, heard about and read, here and elsewhere. I have received some very valuable private messages that really got me to thinking about a lot of things that have me re-examining and repositioning myself in this hobby that I have enjoyed for so long.

 

Uppermost on my list of disappointments, and again, I am not referring to this past issue, I think is the lack of integrity "out there". Not only among E-Bay and other obviously non trustworthy sites, but I have also been burned (fortunately in a much lesser fashion) from smaller dealers with all the fancy initials and association logos in their ads, Though these things would seem to imply honest dealings, often times I have found this not to be the case. Of course there is always the all mighty refund, but what ever happened to just plain honesty in the first place? Those 2 page ads in Coin World have me running for the nearest exit. I can't really tell cleaned from original (when the cleaning is decently done...if that's not a oxymoron), Certification services seem to have an inconsistent set of standards. Example, I am STILL trying to figure out the value of a CAC sticker since even THEY don't have a clear definition of what "premium quality" is. In reference to the third party graders, some coins make it into slabs with cleaning, Some don't, Some coins with minor imperfections make it, others don't. A bit confusing. Counterfeit slabs and coins have added yet another element to my much improved non-buying status.

 

Most difficult for me to accept is the deceptive wording used by some dealers implying that a coin is better that it actually is. A popular one I have seen in use by a respected dealer when I was looking for a decent obverse mint mark walker, is something like this, "nice, original looking surfaces". I ALMOST fell for it but was rescued by a well timed PM. A seated half dealer I was buying from used that little goody too, and when submitting the coins I purchased for certification (of course the process takes longer than the return period offered by the dealer) I find I am stuck with decent looking but previously cleaned coins. I have 3 seated half dollars that fall into that category. Fortunately they are not rare dates nor exceptional grades, but still, I would much prefer, "was cleaned long ago but has returned to a more natural appearance"...or something to that effect. Let's not play the semantics game when it comes to coins. Just tell it like it is. Thumbing, puttied, terms I never heard of (and most appreciatively have been educated about here) and a mess of other altering processes have made buying for the non-pro a real mine field.

 

Then there is the U.S. mint and all the "errors". That is why I don't care to deal with the U.S. Mint, except for my order for the Lincoln dollars, which a month later, has yet to be acknowledged.

 

Now, as angry as I sound, I'm really not, just a heck of a lot more cautious. The learning that has taken place here on the boards for me is priceless. This forum is truly one of the highlights for me now. I know that out there is a fantastic group of guys, very knowledgeable, sharing as well as devoted to integrity in the hobby. You guys are the best.

 

As I said, this recent unpleasantness is not the reason for my closing my wallet, but was just 1 more little chip out of my view of the hobby as it is now. I'll probably never buy raw again. NGC and PCGS will be the only companies I will even consider when/if I dive back in and even there, errors are made. Still, My respect for both companies remains essentially intact. They can judge a heck of a lot better than I can what qualifies as decent material.

 

As they say, "this too shall pass"...and I expect that someday I'll be bitten again, badly, by the coin bug. It's been part of my life for 50 years. I can't abandon it now but perhaps a sabbatical at this time would be appropriate.

 

I haven't read Coin World for a month or so, and pass the issues on to friends or my wife's library for others to enjoy. As far as leaving this board, well, that won't happen. I will still check to see if I can attribute someone's bust dime, or a flowing hair dollar (painful choice there) and stuff like that that I really like to do. I'll still seek advice and offer what knowledge I have that I can share. I'll still read the latest coin gossip and take part in the playful bantering that goes on so frequently. I can still be a hobby participant, I just won't be a buying participant and I'll be more appreciative of the coins that I have that ARE genuine and decent. (I hope.)

 

Man...I must have had a BAD day to be writing all of this. You guys must think I've lost my marbles completely. Nope, still RI AL, sadder but far wiser, much of which is due to you guys (the wiser part) .

 

Have a good evening, everyone, and thanks for "being there" during recent developments and for allowing me to moan and B---- during this "transition period". I'll probably feel 100% better tomorrow...or at least 50%....40?...do I hear 35%?

 

RI AL

 

[Conder101]

The label, or the important part thereof is listed where you can read it from the top edge. I like that feature very much. If I'm not mistaken, don't the new ANACS holders have some form of that with their rounded top? I guess that's the way they were able to use that edge without paying a royalty.

But who would ANACS pay royalties to? Compugrade has been out of business for years and they were the ones who pioneered the top label 7 years before SEGS started using it.

 

RI Al Pink labels? The colors of the SEGS labels are brown for copper, Lavender for base metlas, blue for silver and gold for gold.. (I may have thebase metal and silver reversed. I really can't tell because of my color vision problems. I can't tell the copper and gold apart or the base metal and silver apart.)

[realone]

RIAL,

I have been collecting for 3.75 years. My first 2 were full of everything you mention and more and I ranted about such dealings and dealers ats. I sold off all the problem coins back to dealers and started over after graduating from the MFUN (Mark Feld University of Numismatics, hopefully he will someday send me my diploma).

I now own half the coins that I did when I was ripped off/when I made dumbarse mistakes but they are all of quality and hopefully with original surfaces and naturally toned as I can figure with great eye appeal, they are all NGC and PCGS period. I was angry and pissed and felt taken advantage of and hated almost any one who was a dealer but now it is all different I realize the minefields and now it is a challenge. I have found a bunch of dealers, many that have many of the traits that mark Feld has and thus can be relied upon, they are out there just have to find them. So now my approach is different, I am a changed collector, smarter, tighter, leaner and meaner , but seriously now I am having fun becasue I am armed with knowledge.

So take a breather, I did, but please bounce back, it is collectors like you that we need, one that has learned the ropes and lived to tell about it.

[EZ_E]

So now my approach is different, I am a changed collector, smarter, tighter, leaner and meaner , but seriously now I am having fun becasue I am armed with knowledge.

 

I would venture to guess that most mature collectors fall into this boat unless they had the advantage of finding a mentor immediately.

 

I returned to the hobby in 2002. Even though I was a serious collector as a kid, I still had a steep learning curve ahead of me. Subconsciously I yearned for a mentor. I thought I found one in a dealer who was a partner in Sunshine Rarities of Boca Raton, FL. I spent thousands with him and I spent many hours talking to the man on the phone. He took advantage of this relationship and sold me many spoon-assed coins. He lied to me and cheated me selling me problem coins in third world slabs. I point blank asked him if there was a difference in the grading companies. He said no, that they were all professional and equal. He and his partner took up calling me at home trying to pawn their garbage. I was lucky and started learning after only a year in the hobby. I started returning all of the sub par coins they were sending to me and they got the idea that I wasn't so ignorant anymore. G&F Galleries is also a scam dealer, in my experience. They have the large adds, sounds so convincing but they are rip off artists. Mark Feld was the first honest dealer that I found and I owe him a lot for the indirect education that I received from him knowing that a majority of his coins were very nice having been screened by him first. I developed an eye for coins. I still have my weak areas like being able to authenticate a good counterfeit but I can usually tell a good coin in an instant. One of the best rule of thumb that I have learned is that if a coin doesn't wow you in the first 5 seconds of looking at it then chances are, one should pass.

 

I, too, have gotten rid of all of my problem coins. I don't want them. Plus the selling of coins is crucial in a well rounded numismatic education. Without that experience, a collector is lop sided and disadvantaged. It will also be a gauge to the integrity of the collector measured by how forth coming they are in their description of their problem coins. I've occasionally seen board members here peddle their junk on these boards with hyped up descriptions but they are certainly in the minority.

[realone]

EZ E,

we definitely have parallel stories, one point I would like to make even though it appears you have been collecting longer than me and thus i should be learning from you but here it goes. Since I am constantly learning, when I immediately look at a coin the fact that I may not be wowed as you say initially isn't a factor yet in my decision making ability. You see I need to look at a coin over many hours and a couple of days because sometimes i don't realize what I am seeing or realize what I am missing. I once bought a 1837 10c JR-1 ms64, highest graded dime for the variety at this time, it was absolutely original and darkly toned and i was unsure about the luster, that is until i found a few more that looked like it but were 65's and then I realized it had tremendous luster just a little muted is all. It now is one of my best coins because it is fully original, untouched, naturally toned and unmessed with. Now once I really get all this down and become a true expert maybe then the immediate wow factor being the yay or nay as a major determining factor will come into play until then it is slow motion Al.

[Ted K-migration]

I will still check to see if I can attribute someone's bust dime, or a flowing hair dollar (painful choice there) and stuff like that that I really like to do.

 

That's the key, I think. Despite all the BS with slabs, CAC, dips, etc, etc, etc if you can keep hold of the things that you really enjoy in the hobby, at the end of the day you're putting one in the win column. Hopefully you continue to enjoy the hobby for many more years.

 

I wanted to thank you for posting this thread as well. In reassessing my relationship with TPGs, reading through it reminded me of a similar-ish situation I went through with a certain TPG, though in my case it was that the coin coming back in the holder, while the same date and mintmark, was not the coin I sent them. Phone calls, emails, failed promises to call me back and a whole lot of stonewalling followed, overall it never got resolved because I'd not taken pictures for my own records before submitting, a mistake which I won't make again. No real need to go into the who side of it, but in remembering it, it's helped me make a decision on who's going to get the business I've got queued up, so thank you for that.

 

And lastly, good dealers are certainly still out there. I went to the Dulles Coin and Currency show on Friday, didn't manage to get there until an hour before they closed but I'd been wanting to get there even for a little while for the last couple years, though work schedule had made it impossible previously. I found some rolls of 09 lincolns from one dealer and went to the table of John Mellon about 10 minutes before the show closed. I saw he had rolls, asked price and we started a conversation about the state quarter series, eventually winding up with me mentioning that I was more of an error and die varieties guy. Mind you, being a younger guy at six and a half feet tall with really long hair and a Punisher logo tshirt, I probably give the impression of being a bit of an anomaly even as a casual collector, which he and the other gentleman talking to him had pegged me as at first when I'd asked about the lincoln rolls. On mention of my interest in errors/die varieties, he pointed me towards a couple examples of the bugs bunny 1955 Franklin halves. Conversation continued, his eyes lighting up as we got into discussion of die varieties and he started pulling out quite an assortment of coins with "oh, you'll love this...check this one out, it's really cool....this'll drop your jaw", etc. Having said fairly early on that I wasn't there with a whole lot of cash to spend, giving him the out if he was trying to leave quickly, he continued bringing out really nice coins just to show me because he thought I'd enjoy seeing them, a capped CC and 72 DDO being some of the highlights. We went on talking coins for a while, just sharing a mutual enjoyment of RPMs and varieties in general. I looked at my watch finally and it was 15 or 20 past 6, most of the dealers having bolted as soon as 6 struck (admittedly there was next to nobody there customer-wise when I got there at 5) and figured I should get going. He offered me a very fair price on the bugs franklin of the two that I liked more, which I took him up on, shook his hand and took his card. When there's a lot of "buy something expensive or get lost" going on at shows that I hear about, it was a really nice surprise to wind up talking coins well past the close of the show for the day simply because he really enjoyed them and we had some common points of interest. Wound up finding a gentleman with a small coin display including a tray of loose silver coins at another show next door, and wound up talking with him for 20 or so minutes about prices on lincoln rolls and a number of other things while he let me cherry-pick the tray sitting at a chair behind the table. Wound up with a number of mercs and a few surprisingly nice Roosevelt dimes and had a great conversation with him to boot. The good folks are out there, it just gets hard to see them or remember them sometimes when you see so many contrary examples.

 

Wow, guess I'm doing the too many words thing as well.

[RI AL]

It's before 7:00 Am in the morning and here I am at the darned computer. Spent much of the night thinking about where I was in the hobby and the contents of my last post. Then I just read the 3 really inspirational posts following mine.

 

It sounds as if we have all "been there", discouraged, disappointed, ripped off but you guys report some positive experiences as well. We have all learned from our "failures" and maybe I am taking the chicken-sh-- way out by giving up while you came back "meaner and leaner".Those positive experiences you related are the ones I find most meaningful. While I'm not ready to jump back on board, I think I've softened a bit since last night's tirade and then your notes seemed to put everything in perspective.

 

I am currently bidding on a sun canopy for the new John Deere lawn tractor and just kinda' happened to sorta' accidently slip onto the coins section and just sort a' checked out 1873 or 74 with arrows quarters. A sign of hope that all is not lost? We'll see. The wallet remains super glued shut though, and since I have a greatear reason not to spend money now on coins (Roth IRA contributions for 2009 and the possibility of buying the retirement home in "Heaven's Gate", West Palm Beach) I have a better excuse than just BURNOUT for my out of the market stance.

 

Thanks for writing, guys. All is not dead here...just on hold .

 

RI AL

[jgrinz]

I am currently bidding on a sun canopy for the new John Deere lawn

 

Whassa matter there Al get a little warm for you yesterday ahhahah -

I love this stuff I was out sealing my driveway - Gimme more

 

[/qoute=RI AL]

just kinda' happened to sorta' accidently slip onto the coins section and just sort a' checked out 1873 or 74 with arrows quarters. A sign of hope that all is not lost? We'll see.

RI AL

 

I put on hold my 'obsession' for 20 years myself so it is done and you can recover from the lapse - My wife and I had to pay two mortgages - a wedding - a honeymoon - hers and my family were not able to help at all. NOw I have been back for a few years now ( Sorry you guys had to put up with me ) and I am still learning too.

My Current lesson - Don't collect what you want to collect! Collect what you have a passion for!

I wanted to collect EVERYTHING and did and the wallet paid for it. Now the last two years have been spent selling off most of collection to concentrate on a few series I have a passion for.

We all learn and if you STOP learning life becomes boring .... Hang in there bud

 

I hear it will be cooler today ! I think I will go for a jog ...

 

Take care

[EZ_E]

My Current lesson - Don't collect what you want to collect! Collect what you have a passion for!

I wanted to collect EVERYTHING and did and the wallet paid for it. Now the last two years have been spent selling off most of collection to concentrate on a few series I have a passion for.

 

I've never heard it put in words like that but that sounds like very sage advice! In retrospect, that is exactly what I did, too.

[realone]

RIAL,

one last word, glad to hear that all is not lost.

 

You are the type of collector that this hobby needs.

The type that stands up to all the bs that exists and we all know it exists big time, I guess when money is involved greed becomes the byproduct.

 

Sure we need more dealers like Mark Feld, who aren't in it for the money first, sure he nneds to make a living, but with him it is principles /honesty first and then running a coin business second. He will lose a sale or make less in order for the collector to be safe/learn/collect.

 

And we need more collectors like yourself, those that stand up to the corruption/greed/lies and are willing to do whatever it takes to make a point/to stand on principle.

This story that you lived through and told is a testament (ok maybe I am getting carried away using that word but I am trying to make a point ) to the little guy/collector standing up for what is right and not allowing himself to be ripped off. This hobby needs more of you like this hobby needs more dealers like Mark Feld.

 

And now for something unfortunately negative. It appears Mr Bigs has a reputation that maybe is more perceived or more glorified than what is really true. For an expert/owner of a tpg imho he did nothing but delay the process and ultimately failed to make you whole. I don't know about anyone else here but offering to reimburse one for what one paid for a coin over 10 years ago is an outrage and doesn't come close to doing what that individual is obligated to do. This matter says more about him that everything that I think I heard. We need less of these types in the hobby but unfortunately there are many that hang their hat on tall tales.

 

Which takes us to John Albanese and the NCA, they just plain did good. I was not familiar with the NCA until now but I am familiar with John and he performed just as his reputation is noted for. He is another great one for this hobby and he stands for the good of the hobby every day. We need more John Alnabeses. I have personally spoke to John on many occasions and all I can say as an owner of CAC and a founder of NGC and PCGS is always available to the collector to educate, to serve and to make a stand. I also can tell you this, speaking of passion that another member here so eloquently brought up, he has passion for coins, you can hear it in the way he speaks, he loves the hobby and he helps anyone who asks for help, and I believe his actions here support what I say.

 

Lastly I want to mention a completely different issue, I mentioned that mark Feld is a great dealer/teacher but there are others who are very much similar to him and I wanted to mention them here to, these are great dealers and or great teachers and or individuals who I have encountered that are passionate and care about the hobby and are willing to take their own personal time and impart what they know. These guys/gals help this hobby, we need more individuals like these:

Mark Feld

John Albanese

John Agre with Coin Rarities on LIne

Laura Sperber with legend Numismatics

Doug Winter

Dave Lange

Mark Borkhardt

 

 

 

 

[EZ_E]

A lot of people dis Laura Sperber big time. Sure, she can be gruff and outspoken but I think that she is a big asset to the hobby. [be nice now. Don't make any big asset jokes. ] She has admonished collectors to make wise purchase decisions and has fervently combated coin doctors, all for the betterment of the hobby.

[RI AL]

realone..

 

I printed out your list of "good guys" for future reference. Maybe when I get back in, I'll check THEIR sites. No more experimenting with the "unknown".

 

RI AL

[RI AL]

Hey, Conder.

 

I went and did a double check and my 2 SEGS half cents have distinctly PINK labels. When I can post pictures again on MY computer, I'll see if I can get a good one to post. Wait, I think I have a couple of photos saved on Photobucket. Let me see if I can load one and attach it here. I don't know if pink is a color that you can detect, but these are definitively PINK.

 

RI AL

 

[James_OldeTowne]

It appears Mr Bigs has a reputation that maybe is more perceived or more glorified than what is really true. For an expert/owner of a tpg imho he did nothing but delay the process and ultimately failed to make you whole. I don't know about anyone else here but offering to reimburse one for what one paid for a coin over 10 years ago is an outrage and doesn't come close to doing what that individual is obligated to do. This matter says more about him that everything that I think I heard. We need less of these types in the hobby

 

.... we need more individuals like these:

 

Mark Feld

John Albanese

John Agre with Coin Rarities on LIne

Laura Sperber with legend Numismatics

Doug Winter

Dave Lange

Mark Borkhardt

I unquestionably and completely do not agree with that comment which I have bolded.

 

While Larry's business sense, and perhaps even his business ethics may come under question by some, I believe his enormous contribution to numismatic knowledge is unparalleled by every single person on your "good list". This is saying nothing negative about their own integrity and contributions, but as someone who knows Larry Briggs, I can say unequivocally that this hobby would not be as advanced as it is without people like him!

 

With all due respect, I feel your comment was uncalled for. Several of the folks on your list are basically marketers of coins, and contribute little to true numismatic research and knowledge. IN NO WAY does this disparage their importance to the hobby, but to (seemingly) proclaim "marketing" as the only worthwhile numismatic effort is way off base!

 

I understand that you are in support of all their passion and integrity as those factors contribute to numismatics, and so am I. But you are severely underestimating the value that researchers and numismatists like Larry Briggs bring to the table.

 

Please do not confuse great "marketers" with great "researchers". We need BOTH.

[realone]

Here is a quote off of LBRC (Larry Briggs Rare Coins) website:

"

 

 

Biography

Larry Briggs has been collecting, buying and selling coins since he purchased his first coin from the last page of a “favorite” comic book . The “Worthy Coin & Stamp Company” of Boston offered a coin guaranteed to be at least 150 years old for $1.50. When the package arrived (an 1803 Large Cent) it was the most beautiful coin Larry had ever seen, especially since it took him three weeks to save his allowance for his fabulous purchase. Larry now accepts the fact that the coin, in reality, was down-right ugly. However, that coin (long lost), and the (heavily corroded) 1864-L Penny that his grandmother gave him, started a love affair that has lasted well over 50 years.

 

Mr. Briggs is a native of Ohio and a true “Buckeye” fan. He is an avid fossil collector and has tireless interest in archeology and history. Larry served in the Air Force and worked for “Ford Motor Company” for several years. While working at Ford, he spent his spare time (and just about every weekend) at coin shops and coin shows. His desire, fascination, and infatuation for the hobby resulted in the opening of Larry Briggs Rare Coins (LBRC) in 1978.

 

LBRC inventories almost every type and denomination of coin. Larry is a specialist in error and variety (RPMs, RPDs, MPDs, VAMs, Doublestrikes, Triplestrikes, Saddlestrikes, etc) coinage. The “favored” coins in stock are Early American Coppers, and Seated Liberty Coinage.

 

In 1998 Larry, and others developed “SEGS Coin Grading Service”. SEGS offers the collector, investor, and dealer affordable, accurate grading, expert attribution, authentication and encapsulation. The SEGS capsule provides an inert environment that protects and preserves the physical condition of the coin. SEGS is located in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Call toll free for your free sample and information package: 1-888-768-7261.

 

As you can see from his biography, Larry has applied and devoted himself to the industry and the hobby. He is a collector, a dealer, an authenticator, researcher, a grader, and an author. In the coin industry you can never “learn it all” but, Larry is one of the few “best” in the business!"

 

So now I understand he isn't a marketer he is only a researcher. I will ignore the site and what I just read.

[jgrinz]

I do not get the point of this last post - You just verified Mr Briggs credetials and why when in troubled spot a couple of the "NAME BRANDS" of the industry stepped in to help a numismatic collegue ..

 

I quote your quote ..

 

"Larry is a specialist in error and variety (RPMs, RPDs, MPDs, VAMs, Doublestrikes, Triplestrikes, Saddlestrikes, etc) coinage. The “favored” coins in stock are Early American Coppers, and Seated Liberty Coinage."

 

"Larry has applied and devoted himself to the industry and the hobby. He is a collector, a dealer, an authenticator, researcher, a grader, and an author. In the coin industry you can never “learn it all” but, Larry is one of the few “best” in the business"

[EZ_E]

He is an avid fossil collector and has tireless interest in archeology and history.

 

Right on. I share the same interests. (thumbs u

[realone]

I do not get the point of this last post - You just verified Mr Briggs credetials and why when in troubled spot a couple of the "NAME BRANDS" of the industry stepped in to help a numismatic collegue ..

 

I quote your quote ..

 

"Larry is a specialist in error and variety (RPMs, RPDs, MPDs, VAMs, Doublestrikes, Triplestrikes, Saddlestrikes, etc) coinage. The “favored” coins in stock are Early American Coppers, and Seated Liberty Coinage."

 

"Larry has applied and devoted himself to the industry and the hobby. He is a collector, a dealer, an authenticator, researcher, a grader, and an author. In the coin industry you can never “learn it all” but, Larry is one of the few “best” in the business"

 

The reason for my post is that I was told by a member here that HE wasn't a marketer but a researcher and that point just isn't true, he is a marketer and quite an accomplished one at that. i just wanted to prove my point by quoting His own website.

[jgrinz]

The reason for my post is that I was told by a member here that HE wasn't a marketer but a researcher and that point just isn't true, he is a marketer and quite an accomplished one at that. i just wanted to prove my point by quoting His own website.

 

For what the man HAS accomplished, its a minor issue

[realone]

Listen i have no bones to pick with anyone here, but in this one instance HE handled the situation so poorly that i had to express my disappointment in the process. A man of his stature should not have allowed that to happen as long as it did and in the end he should not of only offered to pay for the original cost of the coin. And if collectors/members don't get on the band wagon to complain it will only happen again and again and next time I have no clue how HE will handle this type of situation since he definitely got away with it in this situation, he was bailed out, sound familiar.

If he is such a saint for the hobby wouldn't you have expected more from HIM?

[jgrinz]

Listen i have no bones to pick with anyone here, but in this one instance HE handled the situation so poorly that i had to express my disappointment in the process. A man of his stature should not have allowed that to happen as long as it did and in the end he should not of only offered to pay for the original cost of the coin. And if collectors/members don't get on the band wagon to complain it will only happen again and again and next time I have no clue how HE will handle this type of situation since he definitely got away with it in this situation, he was bailed out, sound familiar.

If he is such a saint for the hobby wouldn't you have expected more from HIM?

 

I was overly critical of him not as a person, which you seem to be doing, but of the business aspect of the problem. It was not handled in a manner which you and I and RI AL would have wanted it to. Illness was a factor and obviously a tiered control of his business under this type of situation had not been forseen and prepared for. This is forgiveable, RI AL, has.

 

HE must have asked for help - Real Men do that ... and it was handled to RI AL

satisfaction - END OF STORY.

 

[coinman1794]

 

HE must have asked for help - Real Men do that ... and it was handled to RI AL

satisfaction - END OF STORY.

 

Not by SEGS!

[prudden]

Very well said RI AL. I didn't want to quote the complete post,but you hit it pretty much right on with all of your points about the pitfalls of buying coins today. I'm starting small(again) and even or maybe especially in the lower end there's as much dirty trix as elswehere.But it takes awhile to find trusted dealers,sellers and other sources for coins and I hope to build a large enough trusted network where I won't need it go outside it. And this place has helped a great deal.

[James_OldeTowne]

Listen i have no bones to pick with anyone here, but in this one instance HE handled the situation so poorly that i had to express my disappointment in the process. A man of his stature should not have allowed that to happen as long as it did and in the end he should not of only offered to pay for the original cost of the coin. And if collectors/members don't get on the band wagon to complain it will only happen again and again and next time I have no clue how HE will handle this type of situation since he definitely got away with it in this situation, he was bailed out, sound familiar.

If he is such a saint for the hobby wouldn't you have expected more from HIM?

We are in total agreement that this situation was handled poorly. We also probably agree that Larry Briggs has poorly handled numerous business situations in the past, and in fact, I know this to be true, and would go so far as to say that there have been situations worse than RIAL's. That is why I do not believe Larry's contributions to numismatics from the standpoint of marketing are very valuable. He really is a lousy marketer (sorry Larry).

 

BUT, his research and contributions to numismatic knowledge are profound, without question. If I stumbled across an unknown coin, or some weird variety, there is NO ONE that I would approach for insight before Larry Briggs.

 

Nobody is without warts, not even the folks on your "good list", but to dismiss someone outright for all their standing as a valuable numismatic member because of their glaring flaws in one area is foolish. Larry's no saint - he is flawed, just like everyone else. Had he been as great a marketer as some folks on your list, SEGS might easily be the premiere grading company today.

[mommam17]

Why did SEGS not make good on the full value of the coin? Why did NCA make up the difference, when it was SEGS mistake?