SEGS 1795 dollar ...the Continuing Saga

[michael]

well if they want to keep it for a few months like i have seen other major services do when they want to make a determination or what to do

 

i woujld think? they at least would let you know this to keep you informed and/or give you a time frame

 

i guess you will have to wait and see hopefully before the end of this year

 

as clearly they do not want to contact you

[Conder101]

These 3 coins had red labels in the SEGS slabs which, if I understood correctly, were indicative of a problem of some sort.

SEGS never used a red label, and the colors on their labels had nothing to do with whether the coin had a problem. The label colors indicated the composition of the coin, copper, coppernickel or other base metal, silver and gold.

[realone]

I'm thinking that SEGS actions are bordering on the criminal now. That is a c. $5K coin and Al's personal property. SEGS has had the coin well over a month now and no one will return his calls or give him the time of day. Maybe it's about time to retain an attorney.

 

It's likely been sent off to a lab for forensics. ANAAB often kept coins for 3 to 6 months before making a determination on authenticity.

 

 

Edited to make sense and be funnier, sorry for the poor typing:

 

 

Come on this is sounding more and more like a CSI episode only difference being there is no conclusion and there aren't any hot red heads.

[fishfinder]

I agree with the long time line involved. If this coin is not genuine it would take a third neutral party to make that determination and possibly a criminal/ gov investigation. SEGS can only dig a deeper hole by telling you anything at this point.

[RI AL]

Hey, Conder. Well, I learned something about SEGS colors in their labels. I should have said "pink" instead of red but still, thanks for clearing this up for me.

 

3 SEGS coins in all would not cross over, the 1806 half cent SEGS "Worn dies", the 1797/1 half cent SEGS "Massive Die Defect" and the 1795 dollar "VF 25 Cleaned". So, you can see why I made the erroneous connection.

 

Appreciate the correction. So copper and silver coins were both put in pink labels?

 

RI AL

[onekeeper-migration]

This post is for RI AL. Mr. Briggs would like for you to call him on his cell. The number will be provided in your private email. It is requested that you do not share the cell number. Please call him after 1:00PM and up to 11:00PM any day, any time within the times listed. I suggest that if you do not reach him immediately to keep trying. If for some reason you can not and do not reach him please call our office at 1-888-768-7261. The number is toll free. We will locate him for you without fail.

 

Mr. Briggs wants to discuss one of the two coins you submitted to SEGS Grading Service in 2001. I am wondering why you prefer to post here on the Collectors Society board in such detail almost every day. Why not on a public forum? You could always email SEGS, or call our office with your concerns.

 

I am encouraged that you and Mr. Briggs can conclude your "SAGA".

 

 

 

 

[rrantique]

This post is for RI AL. Mr. Briggs would like for you to call him on his cell. The number will be provided in your private email. It is requested that you do not share the cell number. Please call him after 1:00PM and up to 11:00PM any day, any time within the times listed. I suggest that if you do not reach him immediately to keep trying. If for some reason you can not and do not reach him please call our office at 1-888-768-7261. The number is toll free. We will locate him for you without fail.

 

Mr. Briggs wants to discuss one of the two coins you submitted to SEGS Grading Service in 2001. I am wondering why you prefer to post here on the Collectors Society board in such detail almost every day. Why not on a public forum? You could always email SEGS, or call our office with your concerns.

 

I am encouraged that you and Mr. Briggs can conclude your "SAGA".

 

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome to the forum Onekeeper. This is about as "public " as it gets .

[jgrinz]

Why not on a public forum?

 

I am sure this person meant "Why on a public forum"

[EZ_E]

Why not on a public forum?

 

I am sure this person meant "Why on a public forum"

 

This "saga" would never have gone public if Al was treated honorably and respectfully in the first place instead of being strung along and kept in the dark.

 

Regardless of what "will" happen, what "has" happened was completely uncalled for and very unprofessional.

 

You could always email SEGS, or call our office with your concerns.

 

Dang it, now! Why didn't anyone ever think of that?!

[Coindude]

It looks like SEGS is making an effort to handle this professionally. Give Al and Mr. Briggs a couple more days to sort this out before we get too upset on his behalf.

 

On another note to Mr. or Mrs. Onekeeper, I do believe that Mr. Al has repeatedly tried to contact your offices and I even believe he tried Mr. Briggs at home once to no avail. Please don't fail him or this coin community this time.

[coinman1794]

I am wondering why you prefer to post here on the Collectors Society board in such detail almost every day....You could always email SEGS, or call our office with your concerns.

 

I am encouraged that you and Mr. Briggs can conclude your "SAGA".

 

 

I was under the impression he has been calling you?

[Coindude]

Honestly if they felt that Al was acting inappropriately here, that's where it should have stopped. Instead of posting that for the rest of us to see / read, they should have created an account, PM'ed Al with the particulars and asked him to contact Mr. Briggs via cell phone. I see part of the message as condescending and lost even more respect for SEGS because of this message.

 

Personally, I like their holders, they were bold enough to change the way things were done and I was hoping that the "Big 2" would figure a way to follow suit. If you've ever seen a SEGS holder, you'll know what I'm talking about in that you can tell what your coin is without having to pull the slab out of a box. The label, or the important part thereof is listed where you can read it from the top edge. I like that feature very much. If I'm not mistaken, don't the new ANACS holders have some form of that with their rounded top? I guess that's the way they were able to use that edge without paying a royalty.

 

All in all, Al has been very professional here and has defended SEGS in every possible way including respecting Mr. Briggs' health issues and waiting a lot longer than most of us would have. For that I commend you Al... On SEGS behalf, I'm a bit saddened.

[RI AL]

Hello, onekeeper, and thank you so much for contacting me. I am most anxious to have this issue resolve and your contact is very much appreciated. I beg your kind indulgance to read this entire post as I believe it may help to clear up some questions you may have about this entire issue.

 

You asked why I didn't contact SEGS directly regarding this matter with the 1795 dollar. Actually, I did. Initially, I sent the fax to Mr. Briggs explaining the issue regarding the 1795 dollar certified by SEGS as "VF 25 cleaned" which came back from PCGS as "not genuine" I was very pleased when I got the return call from a very pleasant lady at SEGS advising me that Mr. Briggs would like to opportunity to examine the coin. I sent it immediately upon it's return from PCGS to SEGS to the attention of Mr. Briggs. Having done so, I was very impressed at this gesture on the part of Mr. Briggs. I posted on the NGC bulletin board, speaking of how pleased I was and impressed that Mr. Briggs would show such interest and professionalism.

 

Time passed however and interest was maintained by numerous NGC bulletin board participants as to the progress of this issue. Several members of the NGC board posted and I followed up with replies as this issue developed. I should point out that at NO time did I ever mention questioning the integrity of Mr. Briggs. That would have been premature and certainly inappropriate.

 

As weeks went on, however, with no contact with Mr. Briggs or SEGS, I became just a bit concerned that something was wrong. I do have the signed, returned postcard verifying that the coin was received by SEGS. It was at this point that I DID call SEGS, over the course of several weeks, I believe 4 times. I was assured that my message would be passed on to Mr. Briggs except in one phone call when no one answered the phone at SEGS. I did send e-mail as well but received no reply. Someone on the BB posted Mr. Briggs' home number (I DID NOT initiate that request) so I tried to reach him at that number. I left a message with the gentleman that answered the phone and was assured that I would get a return call. Also, there was a message on the BB from a gentleman by the name of Dennis who advised me that Mr. Briggs was not well and had been ill for some time plus had other issues he was dealing with at the time, BUT that I would receive a call from Mr. Briggs the following weekend. No call came. (I was indeed sorry to hear of Mr. Briggs' illness. I know first hand that not feeling well can make things fall by the wayside. I am a recent kidney transplant patient and though things did go fairly well, issues remain requiring frequent monitoring, lab work as well as medication changes, some of which made me feel less than my best. I certainly did not need this issue to arise either but interest was maintained on the NGC bulletin board regarding the progress of events as well as concern on my part. The SEGS 1795 dollar was among my best coins and I simply could not let thie issue slip.)

 

To say that I made no effort to contact SEGS is not accurate, but I understand that you personally may not have been made aware of my efforts at communication, again, all of which went unanswered. I am sorry for this misunderstanding.

 

I am well aware that this is a very minor issue in comparison to Mr. Briggs' wonderful work in the field of numismatics and that perhaps this matter may have simply slipped the attention of SEGS and Mr. Briggs. To me however, as a life long colIector, I had no concerns as to the legitimacy of the coin. Because of the SEGS certification I purchased the coin in question, the 1795 dollar, in full confidence, never even considering that the coin may be problematic. Mr. Briggs, I was told on the NGC BB, is an authority on early dollars so what better recommendation could there be?

 

After roughly 6 weeks of no communication what so ever in spite of my efforts, I sought the suggestions of others on the NGC BB, and I received much valued support. In the post on the BB from Dennis mentioned previously, I was told that "Mr. Briggs would do everything in (his) power to make things right" and I had no reason to doubt that this would come to be with the promised phone call that weekend. As stated above, that call never came.

 

No one regrets the direction this has taken more than I. Not only because of the what I started to realize may have been the loss of my coin, but because of the impression that all was not as it should be and that the handling of this situation reflected negatively on SEGS and Mr. Briggs. Let me state again that this was NEVER my intention but as the interest on the bulletin board grew, I only responded honestly.

 

Very respectfully, I submit to you that had I been kept informed through even a few attempts at contact from SEGS or Mr. Briggs, this whole situation would never have reached this point. I still feel confident that Mr. Briggs WILL make good on his promise to "do whatever it takes to make this right" and when that happens, the NGC gentlemen and others who were so supportive of me will be notified in what I most sincerely hope will be the close of this issue.

 

I have just this morning, along with your message, received instructions on how to reach Mr. Briggs on his cell phone and of course, as you request, that number will not be disclosed as I assume all will be resolved, which I fully expect it will.

 

I apologise for this imposition on your valuable time but I felt that in all fairness, I needed to explain whay this issue has come to this point.

 

My one question regarding your post is this statement, "Mr. Briggs wants to discuss with you one of the 2 coins you (I) submitted to SEGS grading service in 2001. I assume this is in reference to the other 2 coins that were certified by SEGS but were recently rejected by PCGS for certification. Once again, if this is the case, I would be most grateful for the opportunity to discuss this with him.

 

Again, thank you for contacting me.

 

RI AL Alan Glasser

 

 

[EZ_E]

If I'm not mistaken, don't the new ANACS holders have some form of that with their rounded top?

 

Yes, I'm looking at one as we speak. Nice feature since the coin can be identified in the upright position.

 

So, Al, did you call Mr. Briggs? What's going on?

[Schatzy]

[x2rider]

This is better than days of our lives

[RI AL]

Good morning, guys.

 

I couldn't post last night as we were not home until late.

 

In brief, I had a very cordial conversation with Mr. Briggs yesterday and we hope to wind it up today, in the afternoon.

 

It goes without saying how much I appreciate all the support from you guys, and hopefully, shortly this thread can be retired. I will advise you all of every development but I am hoping for a mutually acceptable resolution to this. In Mr. Briggs' defense, he has endured a very difficult series of events in the past few months and I certainly wish he and his loved ones well.

 

We're off to the airport now to return to RI so if all goes well and I able to continue the discussion with Mr. Briggs this afternoon, I will let you know how things go.

 

Have a terrific day, everyone. RI AL...for a few minutes more FLA AL

[gmarguli]

Does this mean he agrees the coin is not genuine?

[coinman1794]

The phone call should have included yes/no, pay/dont. What was said?

[PerryHall]

The phone call should have included yes/no, pay/dont. What was said?

 

Like waiting for the other shoe to fall.

[Coindude]

He's in flight! Give him till tomorrow. Patience baby... patience!!

[gmarguli]

He's in flight! Give him till tomorrow. Patience baby... patience!!

 

Patience is the reason we had a dozen threads spanning months on this topic. We want action!

[braddick]

If genuine, it is a 5K++ coin.

If a counterfeit it is a $50. item at best.

 

Isn't our hobby strange, in some ways?

(Rhetorical)

[EZ_E]

The hobby is most certainly a minefield. Well, at least I haven't lost a testicle from their detonation, just a little toe, maybe. I'm sure there's quite a few eunuchs complements of our hobby, though.

[Coindude]

... testicle ... eunuchs ...

Definitely not two words you normally see when coins are being discussed!! Somebody in this thread is a bit warped!! Ok, two guys. I just hope I spelled everything right this time.

[Just Bob]

... testicle ... eunuchs ...

Definitely not two words you normally see when coins are being discussed!! Somebody in this thread is a bit warped!! Ok, two guys. I just hope I spelled everything right this time.

 

 

 

Leave it to Victor...........

 

 

[RI AL]

Hi, guys.

 

The second conversation with Mr. Briggs was accomplished this evening when I got home from house hunting in FLA. Again, most cordial, and informative on many issues, not just the one at hand.

 

We have reached an agreement that is fair to both sides and that I am satisfied with. I expect check in hand within a few days or so. Mr. Briggs legitimately IS going through a very difficult time that makes this matter beyond trivial in comparison..

 

Yes, the coin was counterfeit according to Mr. Briggs and it is being passed on for others to inspect and learn from. Where we are both scratching our heads is , WHO was making fakes about 8 or 9 years ago...and GOOD ones to boot. I believe I have the receipt from the seller and at this late date I don't expect that anything will come of my contacting him...except...if HE remembers where HE got it...and down the line, I would be thrilled to death if I had the distinct honor of blowing the whistle of the counterfeiter. Not likely after all this time...but man...would I like to get my hands on him. (basically I am a pacifist but that little sh-- caused a lot of grief...I would like to see him get his!!)

 

So there you have it. When check is in hand, I will advise and then we can close this thread. Finally. There is a really good lesson in here. Anyone, even the experts can be fooled or make an error. Me, NOT because of this 1795 dollar episode, but because of the general direction of the hobby (which I don't really see as a hobby any more but more of an industry) has me pretty soured. As I told my wife on the plane flying home, I am considering selling of my U.S. collection and sticking to "low risk" stuff that is still real "collecting" like my Peru set or my Music coin set. We'll see. U.S. type has been my main love for many years and I have built a semi-decent collection, now virtually all certified coins. But I have a business card on file from a very successful auction house and I am tempted to call. (Though I understand that the market has softened a bit and this might not be the best time to sell.) When I'm not do darned tired as I am now, maybe I'll see this differently but right now....well...we'll see...

 

You guys have been great through this and apparently, a final and mutually acceptable resolution is at hand. I there are any additional details of significance, I'll be back.

 

Have a good evening, everyone.

 

RI AL...not so sure about the future change to FLA AL

[rons]

Congratulations on handling this entire affair like a gentleman. The results speak for themselves and you are able to sleep at night knowing you did the right thing. A little more kindness in this world is a good thing and you have demonstarted that kindness. Another teacher "done good"

[Schatzy]

Congratulation Al!! I am sorry that you got a fake and should be a real eye opener for all coin collectors.

[EZ_E]

Yep, you are a gentleman, Al. Still SEGS is w/o excuse for leaving you in the dark for so long. I'm sure that there's more than just one employee who could have had the courtesy to call you.

 

And thanks to all who appreciated my humor, lots of laughs. Ex Navy squids excluded since they're all warped anyway so they don't count.