CAC Dealers...

[Tradedollarnut]

So that makes it OK to put a doctored coin into the marketplace without disclosing what happened to it?

 

Just trying to find the moral line here.

 

I dunno. Check with the auction company it was consigned to and see what they say.

 

It was on the marketplace when I bought it, subsequently the TPG had a chance to take it off, & it returned to the same venue as I purchased it. I see no additional harm created by my actions.

 

Odd definition of altruistic you have.

 

Oh, Greggy - I'm not *that* altruistic. I took my lumps like a good boy.

 

At least I try to do no harm by *my* actions...

[IGWT]

So, please tell us what a clorox strip is, so we can know it when we see it.

 

I have no idea.

 

Did I use the wrong term or was that a different coin?

[just-john]

Would somebody get Bill Gates into coin collecting so he can have somebody design some computer program to grade coins so the average JOE collector could get away from all this nonsense. The amount of money that leaves the hobby and goes into the pockets of the TPG ect is way more than the value of all the collected coins combined and for all the slabbing and rechecking of grades all comes down to or should come down to if you like it and the price seems fair buy it. I don't give a rats butt what plastic its in or what sticker is on it buy the coin. Sometimes you'll be right sometimes not same as with TPG grades

[PerryHall]

Would somebody get Bill Gates into coin collecting so he can have somebody design some computer program to grade coins so the average JOE collector could get away from all this nonsense. The amount of money that leaves the hobby and goes into the pockets of the TPG ect is way more than the value of all the collected coins combined and for all the slabbing and rechecking of grades all comes down to or should come down to if you like it and the price seems fair buy it. I don't give a rats butt what plastic its in or what sticker is on it buy the coin. Sometimes you'll be right sometimes not same as with TPG grades

 

As long as eye appeal is a factor in determining a coins grade, a computer will never be able to grade a coin.

 

 

 

 

[just-john]

The good thing about eye appeal is that it some times changes whats appealing today may not be as appealing tomorrow .Toned AT Morgan's comes to mind how about computer graded coins with a subfields or subgrade to grade for the eye appeal . When some computer software company learn that they could make money on it it could happen

[gmarguli]

Edited by Scott_Schechter (07/15/08 08:02 AM)

Edit Reason: title edited.

 

 

I wonder who asked Scott to edit the title? I hope it wasn't Pinkie calling him to complain again.

[MarkFeld]

Edited by Scott_Schechter (07/15/08 08:02 AM)

Edit Reason: title edited.

 

 

I wonder who asked Scott to edit the title? I hope it wasn't Pinkie calling him to complain again.

Greg, you're apparently assuming that Scott was asked. But if he was asked, I promise it wasn't by me.

[gmarguli]

Edited by Scott_Schechter (07/15/08 08:02 AM)

Edit Reason: title edited.

 

 

I wonder who asked Scott to edit the title? I hope it wasn't Pinkie calling him to complain again.

Greg, you're apparently assuming that Scott was asked. But if he was asked, I promise it wasn't by me.

 

I'm assuming he was asked because it seems like an odd thing for him to do a full week after the original post was made. I'd never expect you to ask that of him nor would I refer to you as Pinkie. And I don't mind the title being edited, but it is a shame that the title no longer expresses the original intent of my post.

[TomB]

Didn't NGC also pull the thread regarding the coin returned from CAC with a note attached to the coin as to why it was rejected? Apparently, the note was attached to the slab in error and the information should not have been shared. It is quite odd that NGC would pull such a thread at the request of a CAC supporter.

[gmarguli]

I don't recall that, but possibly. Anyone else recall this?

 

However, it does seem odd that NGC would be that supportive of CAC, a business where that business model is based the advertised opinion that NGC and PCGS is not able to do its job properly so they need a watchdog.

[NPCoin]

However, it does seem odd that NGC would be that supportive of CAC, a business where that business model is based the advertised opinion that NGC and PCGS is not able to do its job properly so they need a watchdog.

 

I think you may have it a little wrong there. There is nothing odd in any of the TPGs support of CAC. The business model of CAC is not to show that NGC and PCGS are "not able to do (their) job(s) properly". It is a money maker that, by what ever standard and procedure, determine if your slabbed coin may be able to pass for a higher grade based on current market conditions.

 

TPGs and CAC go hand in hand. The raw coins are sent to the TPG, where it is graded and slabbed, reflecting the current market trends. The slabbed coin is then sent to CAC, where a determination is made whether the slabbed coin continues to reflect the current grade accepted for it in the market. If the current market would accept the coin at a higher grade, you get your gold sticker. If the market is stagnant and the coin continues in the current grade under the current market conditions, you get your green sticker. If the market has changed "for the worse", or the TPG did in fact "overgrade" the coin, you get nothing but your slab back.

 

It's win, win, win for CAC. They get paid as long as slabs keep coming in. When you get the gold, you have the chance of selling it to someone else who may try to resubmit it to the TPG, or you may send it to the TPG yourself for possible upgrade. If the TPG decides to upgrade, you get $$$. If the TPG does not decide to upgrade, you get nada! In either case, you will have a brand new spanking clean slab (with no CAC sticker) reflecting the grade the TPG considered the coin to be.

 

It's win, win for the TPGs. Now, what many fail to realize, is we have another slab back on the market, ready for submission to CAC. Win, win, win for CAC again. Depending on the market, slabs that failed before may very well pass or get the gold in the future. So, CAC continues to make money off the very same coins over and over again. The TPGs make the money every time the gold is "sent home for refinement".

 

CAC makes out like a bandit. The TPGs make out better than without CAC. And you, the collector, put more money into corporate nonsense rather than building your collections.

 

To me, it's quite plain and clear.

[TomB]

Greg, a few months ago mrearlygold started a thread where he said he purchased a PCGS coin at auction and the coin was subsequently rejected for sticker by CAC, but it was returned with a notation on the slab that the coin had been puttied. He was asking what he should do about possibly returning the coin or receiving compensation and I responded to the thread, as did Mark who I believe responded several times. NGC pulled the thread. I wrote to Arch to ask why, since the thread did not turn into a flame war, and he responded to the effect that the action had been taken at a higher level than him within NGC.

[stinkycheese1]

Greg, a few months ago mrearlygold started a thread where he said he purchased a PCGS coin at auction and the coin was subsequently rejected for sticker by CAC, but it was returned with a notation on the slab that the coin had been puttied. He was asking what he should do about possibly returning the coin or receiving compensation and I responded to the thread, as did Mark who I believe responded several times. NGC pulled the thread. I wrote to Arch to ask why, since the thread did not turn into a flame war, and he responded to the effect that the action had been taken at a higher level than him within NGC.

 

Interesting. This is all a bit confusing to me, Tom. Why would NGC pull the thread when it wasn't even an NGC coin?

[Houston Investor]

I don't especially like the term "CAC Dealer." It could turn off a lot of buyers who think of CAC coins as expensive. I like to use Teletrade as a barometer as to what the real premium is for some of these. Recenty I bought 2 nice coins of a certain commem issue in MS 65 in the $400 range. The CAC coin was $23 more than the non CAC coin which is just as nice. I can see a dealer paying a $25 premium to acquire a CAC coin with the idea of selling it for say $50 - $100 more than a non CAC coin. However, I am not so sure the market wil support this. Rob, a guy I know in Jersey says "I sell de non cac coin at a 10% discount vs Trends but dey gonna pay all de money on cac coins ha ha."

 

I would comment more, but I think the business analysis of CAC by SMS in one of the posts above is an excellent read and essentially sums it all up. My interest in CAC is mainly from a business and pricing model view in arriving at a proper calculation as to what is a realistic market retail for CAC stickered coins. I see a lot of rich collectors desiring the CAC sticker on classic coins over $1000 in market value but for the most part I shy away from this material due to liquidity issues and certain economies of scale. Its much easier to make 20% on a $100 coin at a show than a $1000 coin, especially if most of the people coming to the show have $300 or less in their pocket.