Will you re-holder?
0

26 posts in this topic

NGC has announced that to combat the wave of fake slabs coming out of China that a next generation holder will be released later this year. My questions to the rest of you out there that own these $1000+ coins that are the focus of the counterfeiting are this:

1) Will you pay to have your old NGC slabbed coins reholdered to have your coin in the new harder-to-counterfiet holder?

2) Will you require that any new high dollar purchases you make be in the new holder as opposed to the old?

3) Will this make you more likely to buy NGC over PCGS since it seems that a counterfeit PCGS slab is imminent and they don't seem to be taking the steps that NGC is to fight the problem?

4) Are you willing to have to periodically re-holder coins every 5 to 10 years as NGC and PCGS have to continue periodically re-making their holders to stay ahead of the counterfeiters?

 

I expect that both the cost of grading and the cost of re-holdering (currently $5) will increase to help cover R&D costs and any increase in the cost of producing the holder as a result of adding the new security features.

 

While we're at it, Anyone want to speculate as to what the new features will be?

Link to post
Share on other sites
NO my $10 Roosie's dont pay. lol Although I believe if I had purchased anything highdollar off of Ebay then I probally would. (shrug)

 

In all fairness to the question, I did say I was talking about $1000+ coins. I'm not about to go and re-holder my $10 Lincolns.

Link to post
Share on other sites

NGC has announced that to combat the wave of fake slabs coming out of China that a next generation holder will be released later this year. My questions to the rest of you out there that own these $1000+ coins that are the focus of the counterfeiting are this:

 

 

1) Will you pay to have your old NGC slabbed coins reholdered to have your coin in the new harder-to-counterfiet holder? NO WAY!!!! i do not need a certain generation holder to tell me about or value my coin

:makepoint:

 

2) Will you require that any new high dollar purchases you make be in the new holder as opposed to the old? absolutely NOT :makepoint: THE COIN WILL EITHER STAND ON ITS OWN MERITS OR NOT no matter what generation of holder it is in

 

 

3) Will this make you more likely to buy NGC over PCGS since it seems that a counterfeit PCGS slab is imminent and they don't seem to be taking the steps that NGC is to fight the problem? NO WAY SHOW ME THE COIN IN A PCGS OR NGC HOLDER AND IT IS PASS OR PLAY (if it meets my standards) WITH ME!!

 

 

4) Are you willing to have to periodically re-holder coins every 5 to 10 years as NGC and PCGS have to continue periodically re-making their holders to stay ahead of the counterfeiters? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

 

or to sum it up in a nutshell........ what tradedollarnut said

Link to post
Share on other sites
Will this make you more likely to buy NGC over PCGS since it seems that a counterfeit PCGS slab is imminent and they don't seem to be taking the steps that NGC is to fight the problem?
Michael, how do you know what PCGS is doing about the situation? ;) As far as I know, no counterfeit coins have appeared in authentic looking PCGS holders yet, so, at this time, PCGS isn't in a position to issue a statement like NGC did. Edited by MarkFeld
Link to post
Share on other sites

My answer to all of those questions is NO!

 

I've spent enough money on third party grading and don't have a positive attitude toward their policies about customer service. (Your expertise and opinions mean nothing. Pay us, shut up and leave us alone.) Third party grading services are like undertakers and dentists. You go because you have to go.

 

As for getting coins reholdered, I’ve done it for two reasons. First if there is a “slam dunk” crack-out and upgrade involved. Second, a great many holders are badly scratched to the point when one cannot appreciate the coin inside. I’ve had coins just reholdered purely for esthetic reasons.

 

Sadly some dealers down not handle their inventory properly and their holders end up badly scratched. I've passed on a few coins that I would have purchased because the holder was too scratched up, and I did not feel like going through the expense and hastle of getting the coin re-holdered.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Will this make you more likely to buy NGC over PCGS since it seems that a counterfeit PCGS slab is imminent and they don't seem to be taking the steps that NGC is to fight the problem?
Michael, how do you know what PCGS is doing about the situation? ;) As far as I know, no counterfeit coins have appeared in authentic looking PCGS holders yet, so, at this time, PCGS isn't in a position to issue a statement like NGC did.

 

Since I started this whole hullabaloo (I am utahcoin ATS), I feel I have a unique position to address the question about potential fake PCGS slabs.

 

Without going into detail, I can assure you they do exist, and are on par with the fake NGC & ANACS slabs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Years ago there was a guy who was slabbing coins in fake PCGS holders. The main difference were on the reverse where he did not get the lettering exactly right in the “PCGS.” Beyond that the physical slab was identical.

 

Of course there was one good thing about these counterfeit PCGS slabs. To my knowledge, all the coins that were in them were genuine. That’s something you can’t say about this new batch of slabs from the Chinese.

 

So, yes, the PCGS slab is not immune from counterfeiting. It’s been done before quite well.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Years ago there was a guy who was slabbing coins in fake PCGS holders. The main difference were on the reverse where he did not get the lettering exactly right in the “PCGS.” Beyond that the physical slab was identical.

Exactly the point I was going to make. Fake PCGS slabs have been around much longer than fake NGC slabs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Michael, how do you know what PCGS is doing about the situation? As far as I know, no counterfeit coins have appeared in authentic looking PCGS holders yet, so, at this time, PCGS isn't in a position to issue a statement like NGC did.

 

Edited by MarkFeld (Today at 09:09 AM)

 

mark i think you are way reading into my thoughts too much

 

i do NOT know or care about pcgs and their slab problems with counterfeits or not weather they have any or not??

i got so many of my own things to deal with

 

okie let me make it a little more clear all i did was answer a question if i would choose a coin in an ngc slab over pcgs slab due to all the rumors around the coin industry of counterfeit slabs and /or the services respeonses to them

 

let me put it more simply

 

if i see a coin i like weather it is in an ngc or pcgs holder ------any generation slab and i like the coin i will buy it if i want to buy it with no worries weather it is in an ngc or pcgs slab nor will i care what generation of holder it is in nor do i care of weather 0or not slabs are floating around that are fake ........ i will with my coin market experiences and resouses llook at the slab and evaulate the coin and if it meets with my approval and i want to buy it and i gots the montry to buy it i will

 

makes no difference over which slab i will buy due to the sleezebay sellers

 

also i have always said sleezebay should be banned and this just proves some more points............... if you want to have a coin selling venue the world over then you got to take some more responsibility for the site and the people you let onto it to hawk/peddle their wares

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome, Flyfishguy! :hi: Glad to have you here!

I saw your thread about the counterfeit slabs ATS - very interesting!

 

link

 

and link (MunkeyMan's post)

Edited by Just Bob
Link to post
Share on other sites
Will this make you more likely to buy NGC over PCGS since it seems that a counterfeit PCGS slab is imminent and they don't seem to be taking the steps that NGC is to fight the problem?
Michael, how do you know what PCGS is doing about the situation? ;) As far as I know, no counterfeit coins have appeared in authentic looking PCGS holders yet, so, at this time, PCGS isn't in a position to issue a statement like NGC did.

 

Since I started this whole hullabaloo (I am utahcoin ATS), I feel I have a unique position to address the question about potential fake PCGS slabs.

 

Without going into detail, I can assure you they do exist, and are on par with the fake NGC & ANACS slabs.

Welcome and now that you're here, I can do something I've been wanting to do....Thank you for your efforts. (thumbs u
Link to post
Share on other sites

No, to questions 1, 2, and 4. A qualified "yes" to question #3, as I like to reward the actions of those who align with my own beliefs and are taking an active stance in combatting this problem.

 

Although I must admit that my want/need to reholder could change if the problem becomes far more widespread that it is currently. However, I will be paying much closer attention to the slabs I buy.

 

While I'd like to think that I would be able to spot countefeits by just by looking at the coins, I also realize that my experience with counterfeits is limited and I can't assume that I am good enough to detect them all...Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites

What happens when the collectors you are selling to start insisting on only the latest generation of holder because they can't tell the fake holders and they depend on the grading services because they can't evaluate the coins themselves? Or when other dealers start making their bids conditional on the coins being in the latest holder because that's what THEIR customers want?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Michael, I admire your confidence and your expertise. However, not everyone is that confident. Yes, I buy the coin not the holder. However, if I see a coin I like and I'm not an expert in that series, I may not be able to recognize the characteristics that differentiate it between authentic and counterfeit. I would then rely on the TPG's assessment, and I would have to have confidence that the slab I was buying was genuine and not also a counterfeit. Thus, although there are collectors out there that couldn't give a darn about the slab and whatnot, there are even more out there that haven't the foggiest clue about what is going on and couldn't tell a fake from a genuine if it hit them in the head with a frying pan. Now, obviously I would argue that they need to educate themselves, but having a reliable slab, be it NGC or PCGS or ICG, I believe is important in today's numismatic culture.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Will this make you more likely to buy NGC over PCGS since it seems that a counterfeit PCGS slab is imminent and they don't seem to be taking the steps that NGC is to fight the problem?
Michael, how do you know what PCGS is doing about the situation? ;) As far as I know, no counterfeit coins have appeared in authentic looking PCGS holders yet, so, at this time, PCGS isn't in a position to issue a statement like NGC did.

 

Since I started this whole hullabaloo (I am utahcoin ATS), I feel I have a unique position to address the question about potential fake PCGS slabs.

 

Without going into detail, I can assure you they do exist, and are on par with the fake NGC & ANACS slabs.

 

Do you have any examples/pictures to share so that we might become more eduated on the topic?

 

Thanks in advance...Mike

 

p.s. thank you for your post ATS!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0