What is a "registry quality" coin?
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Registry Quality Coin" is a cheap marketing tactic used to suck people into buying coins that will get big points in the registry. It helps to take people's emphasis off their individual collecting tastes and puts it on the high point value of certain coins. What is there to explain?

 

 

It might even be added that it's equally if not more unfair to slam the people who provide these registries.

 

 

OK, I never slammed the providers of the registries confused-smiley-013.gif. In fact, the only thing I did was to say that dealers use the term to sell their high-grade coins. Further, while not everyone is over-hyping the registry, there is no qustion that some dealers can/will/and do take it too far, and therefore, it is perfectly justifiable to term this phraise as a cheap marketing tactic.

 

I am a participant in the registry myself and I have nothing against it.

 

Also, keep in mind the context of the original question, which refers to DHRC hyping the registry with the phraise in question.

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As soon as I see registry quality coin in the ad, whether on Ebay, print, website or registry forum I quickly pass it on by. I think I am smart enough to figure out whether or not it is a desirable coin to own without someone tossing the registry ploy in there. Let's keep dumbing down the coin business.

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To me, if the term is used as a snub against everything but pop-top (or, is it top-pop?!?) material, then we are seeing a grossly negative manifestation of what is technically a utilitarian concept with a serious marketing accompaniment.

 

My own Gobrecht, which some have said is a really nice piece, only gets me 3 whopping points here. If someone snubs my coin on *that* basis alone, then I think he needs his head examined!

 

EVP

 

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I seriously doubt that the people who use this term are attempting to demean other grades or other coins. It's little wonder that some are offended by such terms if they have this meaning or connotation to them. This term seems to be used merely to denote that there are sets which could benefit point wise by the addition of such a coin. With some rarities even an AU or an MS-60 might be registry quality. If large numbers of sets were to be registered in the future then the term may well lose much meaning because some sets could be improved by very common coins. Even now some "registry quality" coins are very inexpensive.

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Your Gobrecht is a really nice coin, it's also worth more than three points now in the complete US type set. The updated weights have my coin, in PF10, as 3,103 points and your coin, in PF45, as 3,817 points. Not a huge spread between the grades, but certainly more than the three points they used to earn! wink.gif

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This is OT for this thread, but I am comfortable that there is a small point spread for the Gobs because there is a fairly small spread in pricing (price/grade < 1) for this type in the real world.

 

EVP

 

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Tom,

 

What's MOST important is that MY coin is better than YOURS, and that MY coin gets me more points than YOURS!

 

893applaud-thumb.gif

 

J/K!

 

EVP

 

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My Gob is from the 12/36 emission, so it's at the heavier weight and larger diameter. Ignoring loss due to wear, it's not a good bet to say that your coin is "bigger" than mine!

 

EVP

 

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I dunno. I get 3,817 points for my Gob. Is that RQ material?

 

EVP

 

My 1967 Kennedy business strike gets 1,706 points? Is it RQ material? laugh.gif

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I dunno. I get 3,817 points for my Gob. Is that RQ material?

 

EVP

 

My 1967 Kennedy business strike gets 1,706 points? Is it RQ material? laugh.gif

My 1967 business strike along with another $1.05 gets me a cup of Starbucks coffee. Is that RQ material?

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This is a very interesting thread, and I must admit, I participate in the NGC registry (I have sets on PCGS, but I don't think I've even looked at them in 6 months or more), and in my miniscule corner of the collecting world, registry quality is pretty irrelevant. I think this is mainly due to the fact that completing a set of Saints, much less in the highest grade is impossible for mere mortals. But what I have seen is two sorts of sets, that basically revolve around either quality or quantity. In some cases, folks have smaller sets, but they go for the best possible grades (within reason), so you have a lot of common dates in MS-65 and MS-66. And that's fine for those folks, but I am more of a quantity guy, though the coins I own must be ones I like. So sometimes I have nice coins that I really like, like my 13-D, that are only AU-58. Other times I go for the better dates, like the 25-S I just bought. It's only an AU-55, but I doubt anyone would fault me for buying it over a similarly priced 1928 in MS-66! The nice thing is that things like this prevent registry quality type battles. For the person with the high-grade common date, they might have one of the best of the tens of thousands graded, whereas my coin might be a lower grade example of a date where only a few hundred are graded, and only a few hundred still exist. Either way, we have fun and enjoy what we like. Sometimes there is some friendly competition (like Oldtrader3 and I), but I take more pride in the photos and write-ups on my set than I do with the ranking. That to me is healthy, and it brings more value to all of us in our little community. The major difference I see, and the reason I chose my path the way I did, is that even in Saints, as grading standards shift, or more coins are submitted, the number of MS-66+ coins will go up. For coins like the branch mints from the 1920s, they are gone permanently, and what's left is all that exist. It's possible more will be found in Europe, like the 26-S hoard, but ask yourself, which is more likely, finding a new branch mint hoard in Europe, or PCGS loosening their grading standards?

 

Now as far as marketing ploys, I have another insight. I have never been pitched by a salesman on the "registry quality" of a Saint (and if you are ever pitched on the registry quality of a Saint, that dealer knows nothing about this series, I can assure you), instead on this last one, I was pitched on how nice the coin was, and how seldom these coins come up for sale, two important things to me. There is no need to pitch on grade rarity, because there is absolute rarity in this series. To me, it is only in those series where there are no absolutely rare or scarce coins, that registry quality/grade rarity becomes a big selling point. If there was a particular state quarter or Roosevelt dime where only a few thousand were minted, or where all but a few hundred were melted, then these would be sold on the true rarity of the coin. Just my thoughts, so flame me if you want, but you likely won't change my mind!

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"To me, it is only in those series where there are no absolutely rare or scarce coins, that registry quality/grade rarity becomes a big selling point."

 

I think this is a really good insight. Thanks Jeff.

 

Hoot

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"To me, it is only in those series where there are no absolutely rare or scarce coins, that registry quality/grade rarity becomes a big selling point."

 

I agree. Therefore, I'm gonna say this and probably get flamed but what the hell: I believe "Registry Quality" is simply a selling scheme (ie hype) for "grade" rarity coins. What other reason can there be for using the word "Quality"?

 

 

jom

Edited by jom

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I agree with you jom and yet I don't find your statement contrary to Jeff's. I think Jeff's comment is insightful and draws an interesting distinction with series that have absolute rarities. Yet it's true that a person sees the "registry quality" hype far less in series where the absolute rarity of coins is far greater than the examples Jeff pointed out. I simply wish the term would go away.

 

Hoot

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My quote wasn't meant to be contradictory to Jeff's. I probably should have first said "I agree" at the beginning. Oh...look...I did! I wonder how that happened?..lol

 

jom

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Therefore, I'm gonna say this and probably get flamed but what the hell: I believe "Registry Quality" is simply a selling scheme (ie hype) for "grade" rarity coins. What other reason can there be for using the word "Quality"?

 

There are no high grade rare coins?

 

Isn't it more that people rarely collect the older coins in high grade because they are unaffordable and usually unavailable?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Clad,

 

Your point is valid for some series, like Bust halves, or early dollars, but the situation is entirely turned upside down for series like Saints. Most of these were melted, and most never circulated at all, so in many cases, you will be buying a higher grade coin. For the lesser rarities also, there is less of a jump in price between grades. Take the 25-D, there were 4 sold at Heritage in 2002, the AU-58 brought about $2000, the MS-62 brought $3200, the MS-63 brought $5750 and the MS-64 brought $10465, so less than a 100% jump from each grade. And this was despite the fact that in the NGC pops, 58 was the lowest grade with a pop of 4, and the 62, 63 and 64 are similar with pops of 68, 50 and 51 respectively. I coin graded MS-65, so when talking about a 64, it's pretty high in the scale. In many cases, like the 1921, 26-D, 24-D, 24-S, 29, 30-S and 31-D, no coins have been graded higher than MS-64 or 65. The range is tight, and the grade points become less meaningful, which is the opposite of the modern grade rarities. They have a tight band as well, usually from MS-65 to 70, but there the next highest point has much greater meaning because that is the only thing that defines their rarity. Now look at the real rarities of the Saint series. The 1931-D has a pop of 49, with grades ranging from AU-58 to MS-65. In 2002-03, Heritage only sold 3 at auction, and the prices ranged from $15K to $23K for grades 60, 61 and 64. The 1931 has a pop of 41, ranging from MS-62 to MS-66. Heritage sold 2 in 2003, an MS-62 for $26450 and an MS-64 for $27600. The 1930-S has a pop of 12, ranging from MS-63 to MS-65. One MS-63 coin sold at Heritage for $41400 in 2003. And now the king, the 27-D has a pop of 4, graded 58, 62, 65 and 66. The only one Heritage sold in the last 10 years, was an MS-66 top pop, in 1995 for $390K, and today, if one came up for sale, whether it was the lowest or highest grade, you would be paying well into the 7-figure range. Why? Because most in my little world agree that there are probably less than 10 in existence total.

 

So you see, it's really not the grade that has the biggest influence on the value when you are talking about absolute rarity, it's whether you can even find an example period.

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There are no high grade rare coins?

 

Isn't it more that people rarely collect the older coins in high grade because they are unaffordable and usually unavailable?

 

Uh...yeah. Your point being...? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Jtryka: Good run down of the Saint series. One of the reasons I opted for the $10 series instead is that I noticed that there were really only three tough coins (if you ignore the patterns) in MS. The Saints however have all those late dates which just taking a look at the grey sheet told me to stay away. I also decided then that AU58 was a good grade and many of the tougher $10s I could afford in AU58. This would make at least one of those three (20-S) at least close to what I can afford. The other two, 30-S and 33, almost never come in AU so I'm screwed. Fortunately the 30-S in MS63 is about the same price as a 20-S in choice AU so that isn't too bad. The 33? Forget it. laugh.gif

 

jom

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At least it's possible for you to own a 33! 893whatthe.gif Actually, I will likely start on Indian eagles after I hit the wall on Saints, but there are probably at least a dozen or so more coins in that series that are within reach, so I have some time yet. After all I still need a lot of common dates, like the 1923 and 1925! I thought about the Liberty series, but there are far too many, and way too many that are beyond my resources (thank goodness Carson City was closed by the time ASG created his design!).

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At least it's possible for you to own a 33!

 

Yep! Just after I win the lottery....

 

I'm not glad to hear I'll have competition on the $10 series but I've got about 20 or so peices so far so I'm ahead in the game. I still need a decent 11-D and the 14-P is harder to find that most think. I'd like to upgrade (not necessarily in grade just in eye appeal) my 11-S and 12-S. I'd also like to have the funds to afford a 20-S or 30-S but that is down the road a bit....

 

But as usual with my posts...this is off topic. laugh.gif

 

jom

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Therefore, I'm gonna say this and probably get flamed but what the hell: I believe "Registry Quality" is simply a selling scheme (ie hype) for "grade" rarity coins. What other reason can there be for using the word "Quality"?

 

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There are no high grade rare coins?

 

Isn't it more that people rarely collect the older coins in high grade because they are unaffordable and usually unavailable?

You imply that rare coins don't exist in high grade if registry quality, indeed, does mean the finest grades. Or are you saying that the old rare coins aren't hyped? How do modern rarities fit in this scheme?

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... In many cases, like the 1921, 26-D, 24-D, 24-S, 29, 30-S and 31-D, no coins have been graded higher than MS-64 or 65. The range is tight, and the grade points become less meaningful, which is the opposite of the modern grade rarities. They have a tight band as well, usually from MS-65 to 70, but there the next highest point has much greater meaning because that is the only thing that defines their rarity...

 

So you see, it's really not the grade that has the biggest influence on the value when you are talking about absolute rarity, it's whether you can even find an example period.

 

Regular issue moderns were in many cases almost all made in MS-60. In some cases they came off the die this way, and in others they were mangled before they left the mint. There is only a narrow spread in the quality of the coins which have been submitted for grading. Generally even the moderns which are scarce in choice unc condition are not worth the cost of grading. It is only the highest quality pieces which have enough value to warrant the cost of third party grading, so these coins are cherried out of whatever sources exist and are sent in. The lack of lower grades does not mean the coins don't exist, merely that they are not submitted.

 

Certainly there are many rare classic and modern coins which are difficult to find in any condition, and when they are found in any condition they create excitement. But they are only registry quality if they are among the finest known for the date. Obviously, the importance of being registry quality fades for coins which are very rare and in great demand.

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Therefore, I'm gonna say this and probably get flamed but what the hell: I believe "Registry Quality" is simply a selling scheme (ie hype) for "grade" rarity coins. What other reason can there be for using the word "Quality"?

 

-

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are no high grade rare coins?

 

Isn't it more that people rarely collect the older coins in high grade because they are unaffordable and usually unavailable?

You imply that rare coins don't exist in high grade if registry quality, indeed, does mean the finest grades. Or are you saying that the old rare coins aren't hyped? How do modern rarities fit in this scheme?

 

Clad, you and I have had this debate many times, so you know how I stand on this issue. Yes, I know you were responding to jom, but I wanted to respond to your comments. First, I there are many rare coins that do not exist in high grade, as long as by high grade you mean MS-67 or higher. In fact, for Saints there may be one or two common date coins graded MS-68, but they still sell for about a tenth of the price of an AU 27-D. You can't say that for moderns, like the Kennedy series. You know that the top pop high grade common Kennedys always sell for more than a 98 matte proof, even though the matte has a much lower total population. As far as old rare coins being hyped, they aren't. Old coins that are truly rare aren't hyped, because people who collect them already know they are rare. What is hyped among classics are coins that are not really rare being hyped as rare with whatever justification the seller can find. It's just like moderns, only in classics they may hype the number melted, or the fact that it's original/undisturbed/not cleaned etc., but in moderns they hype the rarity of the grade. Neither case is true rarity. And finally, I believe there are no modern rarities as I define them. They are all common or scarce, but not rare.

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The modern rarities have been listed dozens of times. These are not normally referred to as registry quality either and they rarely come up for sale, but this is truly irrelevant. What is relevant is the meaning of the term "registry quality". If one doesn't like the use of the term "registry quality" then it is not my problem. I have merely tried to provide the definition which I believe most users have given it. Those who don't like the sound of the word or the prices of moderns or the cost of tea in China are more than welcome to their feelings but misstatements about the coins some love may be challenged on a coin message board.

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Speaking of which, Jeff, you are creeping up on me again with your Saint set. I had better get busy and try to find a couple more Saints for my set. I need a '13-S & '16-S but can't seem to find (or afford) "RQ" (whatever that means to all) examples. I guess that I will try instead to find a couple nice MS63's. 893frustrated.gif

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