Registry sets without pictures frustrate me -- A proposed solution

[CHABSENTIA]

I recently had to buy a new Computer.I am Computer literate for the most part. Last week I purcahsed a scanner .The scanner had no Instruction manual. I called HP and they informed me that no Manual is shipped with the Scanner that every thing is on the CD.I talked to a Tech and it appears that either this call was forwarded through India or all the Tech reps are from there.They just know the Basics and they send you to different parts of the Computer to see if certain files are there and proceed from that point.I had to download a large file that even with my High speed DSL took about 14 minutes.Of course, you have to call them back and go through the "put on Hold" game ,This can be very inconvenient for those with a good knowledge let alone a beginner.

 

I figured out how to scan as I had used a Scanner before and was able to Scan a slab or two that came out really great.I will have to go to the CD and find out about different operations that I may use in the Future as there are 4 buttons on the front for different operations,I can see where people would be discouraged from providing images.

 

I have one question .If I enter a coin in a registry then am I able to provide an image of that coin at that point or do I have to wait until I am finished to go back and provide the Image?

[BillJones]

You can post an image of a coin as soon as you have registered it. The registration can be in the "pending" stage, but you can still post the image.

[EZ_E]

My USA type set registry has 100% of the pictures. I do this so that others can enjoy my set but I do it even more for myself. I have most of my coins locked away so the NGC Registry is an excellent resource for allowing me to view my collection at most any time I wish.

 

I definitley don't have the greatest collection and never will but I have some coins that are gorgeous and beneficial to all who care to view them. I wish that others had the same courtesy. Just recently, I desired to learn about grading the 1795 half and went to the registry to see examples. There were hardly any pics available. This was/is extremely frustrating. I have very little respect for registry participants who care so little as to make no attempt in enhancing their sets with pics and descriptions. No photo skills? I'm not buying it. Most all coins purchased online have a photo of the said coin. Is it so hard to right click and copy? And a little photo editing skills is only a bonus but not usually necessary. So, the top registry participants who only care about numbers are nothing but self-absorbed, egotistical _____s! Fill in the blank.

 

My USA type set is only ranked 30th but it has the second highest number of views because of the photos. Participants like Bill Jones and Rexcat are positives! Just viewing their sets is both an education and an enjoyment! Wish more folks were like them!

[CHABSENTIA]

You answered your own question when you said "that most coins purchased online have a photo" How do you know that they actually purchased the coin or just took a picture.? It proves nothing. Have you purchased a scanner lately?I use a scanner on a regular basis and had to purchase recently.They do not issue manuals any longer.It is much cheaper to put the " Help" section on the enclosed software CD for a cost of pennies.Unless you are familar with the terms such as jpeg and other extensions then you either need to refer to the CD and hope it expalins it or get the info from another source.

 

You have to refer to the CD for operating instructions if you are not familar with the operations.If this is a problem then you have to call the Manufacturer.If the item only has a 90 day Warranty and it is after 90 days then they will not talk to you.

 

If you do qualify for their Tech service then most of the time you are put on "Hold' for an indefinite period of time. You are then connected to a person who in very many cases knows little more then a lot of the people calling and has a book yhat they refer to based i=on the symptoms and goes through it step by step.If you have to download a large file which can take as much as 20 minutes even with a DSL or cable modem then you are told to download it and call them back and then you go through the "Hold" process again.

 

I think it is fairly arrogant to think that people that might be included in the above process should be criticized.

[EZ_E]

I think you are an exception since you mainly collect moderns. I was mainly referring to the early types and the big sets.

[Dwaine]

I have to admit that when I first started building my set's I didn't add any pictures or notes. Over the weekend I decided to delete all my sets and rebuild making sure that I take my time adding the coins. I am starting with coins that I have saved pictures either from the internet or taken myself.

 

Then once I get all these added I will start adding the others as I take the pictures.

[EZ_E]

You have an excellent start on some incredible coins, Dwaine!

[CHABSENTIA]

I would agee that people would be more interested in seeing the photograph of an older coin then a Modern.I just disagree with taking the pictures "online" and then putting them in a Registry for the reasons mentioned.

 

I understand that NGC has a Policy that if I enter a Coin in a Registry and that coin is already in a Registry then both parties will get an E mail fron them. one will request a deletion and one will acknowledge the addition.

 

If the person selling the Coin does not have it in a Registry then it makes no difference.Not everybody has hteir Coins in a Registry.

 

I originally bought bought a 20th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set directly from the U.S.Mint. Unfortunatley I did not send it to NGC "unsealed" at the time.I did send in the Reverse Proof as it qualifies for the Black Label.It came back as a PF70 which more thanpays for my Original cost of a $109.00.

 

I sent in the 2006W and it came back with a Brown label as a 2006W PF69..I see a problem here as I had one of the three with a Black Label.You can't at this time enter the Reverse Proof as a slot in the Proof Silver Eagles.You can use the 2006W even with the Black Label in the Proof Silver Eagle slot and you can put the third coin in the set which is an MS with the Black Label.into a slot in the Mint State Silver Eagles.The Proof Reverse Silver Eagle appears to be a stepchild as the only place you can enter it is the 20 th Anniversary Registry which means that if you do not have the other sets in the 20th Anniversary such as the Gold that you only have the one coin for the whole set.

 

I have noted other suggestions for the Registrys such as slots being out of sequence etc.It seems to me that there are more important issues that affect the Coins themselves then downloading a picture.

 

People can be Coin Collectors and still not be in synch with Digital Cameras and Scanners as mentioned earlier.What about the Person that is 60 years old and has been collecting coins since they were 12 and has an extensive collection but doesn't understand the downloading and never took the time to learn?

[DC Dawg]

Speaking for the "we're too stressed out" crowd, some of us are a bit over scheduled that finding time is an issue. Maybe to extend the sentiments of this group a bit for those of us with time issues:

 

1. Every competitive set must have pictures or descriptions to be considered a top set.

2. In each competitive set, the owner must have either a picture or description to be considered for competition. This will allow those without cameras or those with time constraints some leeway.

3. Descriptions must be germane. I know in my sets have a word here or there mainly for my information (which was supposed to be used to rewrite a description for later) and I could take a paragraph from Lorem Ipsum to artificially fill the space, so the entry has to be about the coin. NGC would be the judge of germane.

4. Obscured sets should not be considered for competition. What is the purpose of competing if you are not going to share?

 

Just a thought... would there be an interest from others to image sets for those who cannot for a "nominal" fee? Why not charge (say) 50-cents per coin plus shipping of a CD/DVD? I am assuming that the person would have a computer and know something about the Internet if they have a registry set!

 

Scott

[CHABSENTIA]

I have no problem with the Image or Description angle.My problem is with the people that say you must have an Image to be considered for the Registry for the reasons mentioned.It seems that the main reason for people insisting on an Image is to eliminate entering a coin which they do not own.This proves nothing.

 

I can also see a situation where many would like to see an Image of an older coin that stands out for some reason.

 

I could also see a situation where a small charge of say 50 cents per coin would be a solution.

 

I look more on the issue as being technical for the reasons mentioned before as opposed to one of time constraint..I used to work as a Manager in Retail.The people that would pay to have something assembled ot the people that would bring something back because they could not understand how to put it together is amazing.Large retailers who sell Computers now have services that will come to your home and connect it up for you and they have lots of Customers.

 

I am old enough to remember before AOL was acquired by Time Warner.If your E-Mail extension had AOL other more knowledgeble people tended to look down on you.

[CHABSENTIA]

I thought I would add something else on this. Today I decided to put mu Mint A.S.E. into the Registry.I have every slot covered. with either MS69 or MS70.

 

Two of my coins were not accepted at this time.One is a MS69 and the other is a MS70.Even with these two coins I don't believe that I will move up and extra place but it will be close.. There are still a few problems here.

 

1. At least one person who sold the coin did not delete it from their Registry.

2.Even if it does not move a person up another place the person who now owns the coin will at least temporarily lose total points.

3. There can be two Pictures for the same coin.One for the person who did not delete it from their Registry when they sold it and one for the person that now owns it.

 

Again , having an Image does not mean that the person has that particular coin in their possession.

 

For the people that think there should be extra points fro providing an Image then it seems that it would also make sense to apply a Penalty such as an extral loss in people who sell a coin but do not delete it from their Registry.Wouldn't this be fair ?

[jackson64]

It usually only takes a day--two at the most--for the coin to be transferred. This has happennned to me several times and I never had any issues. NGC simply sends the person an email asking them to accept removal---no reply is an automatic transfer of ownership. I also have sold some of my registry coins at auction {Heritage for example} and they don't pay you until the buyer pays them. Some buyers try and list the coin in their registry even before they have it in hand, immediately after having the winning bid and I haven't gotten around to removing it yet because it has not transferred to my "sold" list{sometimes I get an unpaid coin back 9 months later from Heritage} The point is that it doesn't hurt to wait a few days for your points to change, and it ALWAYS works out correctly.

 

PROOF of ownership is as easy as having a picture of myself with the coin in one hand and today's Washington Post in the other..enough said..I have the coin---

 

finally, you are comparing apples and oranges. I'm not in favor of penalizing people for not adding photos { it's their collection, let them enjoy it their way} also penalizing people for forgetting or being slow to remove a coin when there is a system to fix it is silly...

[CHABSENTIA]

I received the two coins in my set the next day.One even had an Image to go with it. I did not move up as a result of the addition of the two coins but I had already mentioned it would not make any difference.I was aslo curious about a maximum time as I had read on a few forums where a few just didn't do it and ignored the E mails. There could be many reasons for it.

 

 

I entered a Proof set tonight and ran into the same problem for a PF70 coin.I spent a lot of time doing Images for the coins mentioned in the first e-mail as the original ones were too large and the maximum limit is 120K.Now that i have stored the right settings it will take less time.

 

I was trying to be facetious about the Penalties.I have written E mails about why some people do not have Images.Earlier on there was a person who thought that people should get extra points for Images. I am 3 points from being the number 15 Standing.If I was to get four points for Images as the #15 spot has no Images then I would be #15 in this case.Are my coins any better?. There is also this point about somebody else possessing a slot and an Image when they no longer hold the coin.

 

The Image does not seem to be that important although it would be nice in the case of some of the Older Coins.I sent in a raw 1987 Silver Eagle when I first joined NGC with my free voucher as I needed a 1987.It did come back as a MS69 but as a Struck Thru error coin and you can't use error coins in the Registry even if it is a MS69.In this case I can see why one would want to see an Image as opposed to an error free 1987 A.S.E which is a Modern coin.

 

I also thought about the other.How do you prove that you now have the coin?Do you have to take a picture of you with the coin and todays issue of the Washington Post as you mentioned?

 

 

[RareSov]

You hit on a very good point - are your coins better.

 

Here's food for thought - at least we CAN SEE yours and see if they are over or even under graded..

[CHABSENTIA]

I guess that if you looked at them and felt they were over or under graded then the beef would be with NGC since they graded them. The points still remain that the presence of the images or their non presence do not make the same set any better or worse.

 

Everybody gets the same score for the same grade

[joejeweler-migration]

Hey Bill,......as long as you're naming names,......why no mention of the "Eye Appeal" US Type Set nipping at your heals in the 11th spot! My set is only 44% complete,........so i've got a lot of room to grow!

 

Like you,.....i have some coins not included in the Numismedia valuations for owners of these sets. My 1868 PF66 CA seated dollar shows no pricing information,.....i guess the Cameo designation confused them. I'm showing a Numismedia set valuation currently at just over $306,000.00 for this set,......not including the $19K cost for the seated cameo dollar.

 

My NGC 1937 PF66 Cameo Buffalo nickel (maybe a dozen known cameo coins in all ?) is another not priced in the totals, ......so add in another $9,250. Ditto the 1882 PF67RB Indian cent($2,500) and 1882 PF67CA Shield Nickel. ($4,680)

 

I mention this because i am one who would LOVE to have all of my coins up with great photos. The valuation of one's set doesn't always have a direct corrilation with one's ability to get great pics up! I am super fussy, and won't leave a poor pic up i'm not totally happy with. A few i'm still not satisfied with,......my AU58 Flowing Hair Dollar being one of them. The coins looks super in hand,......but it's hard to convey with the darker blue toning. It's going to be a work in progress,.....much like building the set itself.

 

The coins i do have up with great pics got there because i used the photos off the sellers sites when they were listed. I picked up a Nikon D200 digital camera and a couple of high end lenses,.......one a macro,........but have yet to achieve the quality of result of some of the coins i already have posted.

 

Lighting seems to be a problem for me right now,........and with all my coins in a safe deposit box right now due to a second breakin at my home this year,....... will likely remain there hindering access for additional photography.

 

I hope to eventually get nice photos up of my entire set,.........since using "Eye Appeal" as my set moniker seems counter-productive without great pics!

 

BTW,.....those top sets with absolutely NO pics or descriptions drives me crazy too! I even mention it in my "Eye Appeal" US Type Set description.

 

 

5. Figure out how to crop the photos and then save them as jpgs

--a. Find the software

--b. Understand compression and file sizes of images

--c. Understand your save format options

6. Upload the photos to the registry

 

This group of arguments doesn't hold any water at all.

 

In one of my main categories, U.S. Type set, the top guy has ZERO pictures. His collection is 93% complete. It has won the top award for the category two years running.

 

According to the Numsimedia dollar value, my U.S. Type set is worth $309,789.20 with not all coins counted. His set has got to worth a good deal more than my set, YET he can't take pictures? You mean to tell me a guy who can afford to put together a collection is that worth well over a half million dollars can't afford to take pictures or learn how to do it? Give me a break.

 

I have 103 coins photographed in my set. Among the top five collections in my category there is a grand total of 58 coins pictures. I have write-ups for 98 of my coins and intend to get it up to all 103 of them by the end of the year (+ whatever coins I might be able to add.). Among the 5 top collections, only 83 coins have write-ups. Why do these big collectors have so little to say? I can't understand that.

 

Credit is due to "Zakmar" who has 105 photos. He's in 6th place and has put forth a good effort to offer something to other collectors.

 

There is one collection, and I'll name names, "Cardinal" that is "obscured." In other words the people who are supposed to be competing with him (I actually think “Cardinal” is a foundation, which raises other issues) can’t even find out what coins this person (group) has. In other words that set has ZERO educational value. No photos, no write-ups and you can't see what he's got. Why does NGC allow “Cardinal” to do that? If Cardinal is unwilling to show the contents of his registry set, then he should be moved to a non competitive category.

[Tradedollarnut]

There is one collection, and I'll name names, "Cardinal" that is "obscured." In other words the people who are supposed to be competing with him (I actually think “Cardinal” is a foundation, which raises other issues) can’t even find out what coins this person (group) has. In other words that set has ZERO educational value. No photos, no write-ups and you can't see what he's got. Why does NGC allow “Cardinal” to do that? If Cardinal is unwilling to show the contents of his registry set, then he should be moved to a non competitive category.

 

The Cardinal Collection was sold off many years back - which illustrates the biggest problem with the NGC Registry: no one is removing old sets. The categories in which I occasionally participate have many old sets that have long ago been sold.

 

 

[CHABSENTIA]

Sounds a little Elitist .My Father gave me the Proof and Mint sets I mentioned earlier before he passed away a few years ago.M as well as E MILy Mother is still alive and lives there in South and I mean South Texas.You go in their backyard from the back of the house about twenty feet and there is a seven foot Sea Wall and the Gulf of Mexico Ocean. You can then look across the Ocean and see South Padre Island or you can take about 15 minutes and drive to it. A vacant lot in that area would cost more than that collection.

 

My Father was not what I would consider Computer Literate except for the basics.He used it mainly for Word processing and managing a Portfolio as well as E Mail . I guarantee you that he couldn't use a scanner. T o make the statement that " somebody with such a valuable collection............ naive at best

You think that elderly people for whatever reason might not be Computer literate in all facets might be grossly inadequate.

 

I was an Electronics Technician in the Navy and went on to get two college degrees. My son is a College grduate with a degee in Computer Graphics design.I know the people he has had to deal with and I have had to deal with people to get information. As mentioned earlier these companies that manufacture Scanners do not include Operational manuals as it only cost pennies to put the information on a DVD. If the Scanner has a warranty of 90 days then they won't even talk to you or give assistance after its expiration umless you have an extended/service warranty.

 

I merely illustrated some of the reasons why people might not have an Image or took the trouble to purchase a scanner etc.

[joejeweler-migration]

If the Cardinal Collection has long ago been sold off,.....why does it show the date the score was achieved as 8/9/2007 in the stats?

 

That seems to indicate a coin was added or taken off on that date,.........or so it goes when i add or delete a coin.

 

BTW,.....if this is the case regarding lack of removal of old sets,........are you saying NGC has not removed them,.......or the owner? If NGC,......what would be the point?

 

If this set (and maybe others?) shouldn't be there,.........then it is keeping my and everyone else's sets down one rank!

 

 

There is one collection, and I'll name names, "Cardinal" that is "obscured." In other words the people who are supposed to be competing with him (I actually think “Cardinal” is a foundation, which raises other issues) can’t even find out what coins this person (group) has. In other words that set has ZERO educational value. No photos, no write-ups and you can't see what he's got. Why does NGC allow “Cardinal” to do that? If Cardinal is unwilling to show the contents of his registry set, then he should be moved to a non competitive category.

 

The Cardinal Collection was sold off many years back - which illustrates the biggest problem with the NGC Registry: no one is removing old sets. The categories in which I occasionally participate have many old sets that have long ago been sold.

 

[TomB]

The fact that the collection has a reset date of 8/7/07 might mean that NGC recalculated some points for coins at that time and this recalculation might have changed the total of the set.

[CHABSENTIA]

Exactly .There are also other changes.If I submit a coin that is a PCGS coin then it takes a few days before the PCGS coin is certified and the points are actually awarded to the set. I added coins to a set one day and received a total score for all sets and the next day my set decreased by four standings overall.

 

Later I added PCGS coins and a few days later I received an acknowledgement that the PCGS coins ad been accepted and my overall standings increased by over 30 Positions.

 

Points and Standings are automatically increasing all of the time. I could start another set with Morgans but I don't feel that I have enough to put there.When I do start this set I would expect that my overall standings will go up several positions and some others will go down a few positions overall.I can guarantee that I will not have the best set but I will have a set that that I constructed to the best of my ability and which will cause others in the same category to go down one or two postions.

 

This and the updating of scores by NGC will cause certain shifts.Each set has a statement that one can click to to request a change in scores.The criteria in the Market place will cause a change in scores for coins if they change and it affects the criteria used for that particular coin.

 

It has nothing to do with "Images".

 

I do believe that if a person in the same :" Set Registry" category has the same number of points as another that if one of them has Images and the other doesn't that the one with Images will get a higher place standing so there is some consideration for : "Images".