GoldFinger1969

One thing I saw posted and I agree 100%:  if you complain about "gradeflation" you can't be upset with CAC...and now I would add CACG. 

On 4/9/2024 at 9:17 AM, Roy Winters said:

wow that went down a dark hole. LOL  thank you all for your input, as far as why, cause i want to.  

 

Roy, they're your coins, absolutely.  However....do you think it is financially WORTHWHILE to do so -- are the coins holding numismatic value or are they just common bullion with a minor premium ? 

You still might want them certified/protected if they have sentimental value, but if they are common gold coins in AU or EF condition, might not be worth it.  Just be aware.  

What coins are we talking about ?  Any pics ?

On 4/7/2024 at 4:31 AM, murder69 said:

What's the big negative aspect of every once and a while someone posts some really cool coin on any of the boards and anyone who see it can buy it? 

Nothing...if it's posted correctly and in the right section.  We're not trying to rain on your enthusiasm, and you may have good intentions (or not !)....but there is a procedure for threads like yours.

If we were to disregard those procedures, it wouldn't just be your thread/post that goes astray....we'd have dozens more in no time. 

Wells Fargo Hoard, Initial Selling Prices:  Found an old article that mentioned that the MS-65's sold for about $1,200....the 66's for $3,000 and the 67's for $10,000. That was with gold trading $280-$380 from 1996-2001. The premiums were HUGE. 

Ironically, buying the better coin didn't work out this time as more and more 67's hit the market and the premium collapsed even as gold went up 6-fold since. 65 owners have doubled their $$$.....66's are about even.  But the 67's are down 30-40% ! 

Interesting to see how it played out over many decades and with gold rising 6-fold over that period of time.

19,900 vs. 10,000 Coins:  It appears that it was just sloppy writing causing the confusion on the size of the Wells Fargo Hoard and the grading events.

It was apparently NOT the case that every single coin in the WF Hoard was graded.....there were 19,900 coins in total apparently, but only about half (10,000 or so) got certified.  The other coins must have been circulated or so bag marked that even if they got graded it would be low-60's and not worth doing from a financial POV, even with the WF pedigree.

On 4/6/2024 at 9:05 AM, murder69 said:

Make offer Icon Provided if you Feel Price is too High

Well, knock off 30% and make an offer and report back. 

The use of paper currency use ILLEGAL in the territory/state of California made the circulation of gold coins -- including SanFran-struck DEs -- much more widespread on the West Coast.  That's a continual theme that comes across my readings from 1850-1870.  Started to decline during 1870-1900 but not sure of extent.

1849 Double Eagle:  It's generally said that there is only 1 survivor (might be another 2-3 struck but destroyed)....it's in the Smithsonsian.

But Bower's Red Book says there was talk of another 1849 DE struck for Treasury Secretary William Meredith (d. 1873)...his estate handing it down to Philly dealer William Nagy, who told Breen in the 1950's that it was in a private collection. 

I know Breen's reputation for hyperbole and outright falsehoods but I was wondering if anybody has read or heard of anything regarding the possibility of a 2nd coin being struck.  You would think that with over 70 years since the story came out -- and over 175 since it was last seen -- that it would have come public by now. 

The references to Meredith and Nagy in the Bowers Red Book are the only ones I have come across.  And it IS 20 years old, so maybe stuff has come out to debunk this since.  But I haven't seen it. 

On 4/3/2024 at 12:49 PM, RWB said:

Is he telling facts that he knows, or simply spinning a story abut some assumed "stealthy hoard?"

His price changes can be checked for reality, but not his "reasons" for them....if he has any.

I guess it's POSSIBLE that the increase in supply was just a coincidence of a bunch of MCMVII HR holders deciding to sell that month.

If it persists, it could mean elderly people passing on and/or estates being liquidated.

Some coin-centered themes were more focused on the coin(s) in TV shows, like the famous Hawaii 5-O episode with the Liberty Nickel.

On 4/3/2024 at 9:09 AM, zadok said:

...the good the bad n the ugly....

I just started to get into early Clint Eastwood stuff. 

Liberty is not struck as sharply as on the SanFran coin.  Ditto the reverse with the Eagle looking much different.

This coin is one step above someone using Crayons. 

On 4/4/2024 at 12:04 AM, RWB said:

Might also be something made by a colorado counterfeiter. It produced altered ASEs in the past, so why not again?

Aren't his clearly identified as such though ?

On 4/2/2024 at 3:33 PM, ldhair said:

I don't see the 95-W as rare but I feel it is the key date to the series. This is one of those coins that many will always call rare.  

What I don't get was...weren't there by 1995 lots of ASE collectors, buying at least 1 each year ?  So why after 9 years (1986-94) would they not make it available solo ?

On 4/2/2024 at 6:42 PM, zadok said:

...revisit ur thoughts after another thousand posts or so n after u have been subjected to some of the bs u will read here...until then ill just overlook the above....

We have lots of useless posts ("Hi, I found this coin in my washing machine, can you tell me if it's worth $10,000 ?" ) but we also have some pretty smart guys here and lots of VERY useful threads. 

Anybody who obtained SPECIFIC data on their particular coins or coin types would do well to make sure they saved the information on the various threads here.  You have stuff here you can't get in other forums, books, periodicals, etc.

On 4/2/2024 at 10:49 AM, RWB said:

Without hard evidence, it's just rancid bologna.

I would assume a dealer like Winter who puts his thoughts out in the open in his blog (as opposed to other dealers who can talk their own book or bullbleep) is going to have some quantifiable reference to say something like that.  If he normally sees 5-10 coins per month and all of a sudden with no change in pricing he sees 20-25, he knows something is up.

At least I would.  

On 4/1/2024 at 9:36 PM, VKurtB said:

This seller so fantastically pumps up the contrast on all his coins photos that what you see in his listings simply does not exist. The curves of the photos are horribly screwed with. “Juicing”, “juiced”, and similar words are MEANINGLESS. I've read them far too often. Use correct terminology. Or is it “an Internet thing”? Show me where juiced is defined this way. 

Return policy ?

I've seen photos of a coin with the lighting angles changed...night and day....from outstanding eye appeal and luster to horrid.

I think it was mentioned here before....but the risk of milk spots or other blemishes turning your PF70 or even PF69 into something worth 75% less overnight is also a BIG risk if you can't afford it.

On 4/1/2024 at 2:24 PM, VKurtB said:

The Crimson Tide basketball team ACTUALLY DESERVE their Final Four berth. 

Bama should have probably beat Michigan.  They were probably the 2nd best team overall.

Might re-post this in one of the Hoard Threads, but given the prominence of the MCMVII HR I thought it could go here.

Doug Winter posted back in early-2021 about a stealth hoard of MCMVII HR's that had depressed prices.  I reached out to him for more details but never heard back.  Anyway, from his blog at the time:

"...In 2019, an average quality PCGS MS63 1907 Wire Edge High Relief $20 typically sold for around $20,000. In late 2019/early 2020 a substantial hoard of High Reliefs in MS63 through MS65 came onto the market and prices dropped to $14,000-15,000 by the middle of 2020. Prices rose slightly towards the end of the year but these are likely to remain flat in 2021."

I'll scout recent pricing the last 2-3 years to see if they have bounced back as I think they have.  If anybody has heard about this "MCMVII HR Hoard" -- and where it might come from (probably domestic) -- chime in. 

$2,280 overnight, up another $40. 

On 3/31/2024 at 3:44 PM, VKurtB said:

The counterpoint to that excellent reasoning is that the ASE remains BY FAR the most frequently encapsulated coin by NGC. And it’s not even close. Yeah, I don’t get it either, but it is what it is. SOMEBODY surely does love the 💩 out of collecting the things. 

It's affordable...the coin looks nice....it's 1 ounce of silver....makes a nice present.   

I don't know how PCGS computes FMV for coins, but if it some algorithim based on previous prices, then thir FMV would be too HIGH if the price is in a long-term downtrend as the 1995-W ASE was for a decade or so.

On 3/31/2024 at 2:23 PM, bobbyboshay said:

if it’s worth 6 figures or not money when it comes to rarity is not the issue  does this coin is the best  or in so many words the G O A T of  American Eagle who care of the price history  with so many of these coins certify is there a coin with these many certification still holds this much value when in most cases the prices don’t hold this value?  Don’t forget we are talking about silver eagle 🦅 also the termite still have there coins and hasn’t sold them on the market  because it’s still few on the market and the termite ain’t selling them for 24 dollars 

I think you answered your own question.  Quite frankly, if I was an ASE collector or if I just wanted a 1995-W as a conversation piece, I would almost certainly go for a 68 or 69.  

ESPECIALLY when you consider the risk of milk spots or something developing down the line.  One thing to have a $2,500 coin get cut in half price-wise....but to spend $12,000 and have it go down by 75-80% would be too much unless I had just won PowerBall. 

On 3/31/2024 at 3:28 PM, Jason Abshier said:

Yes it worth upper $10,000 to $18,000 (unconfirmed) or so going by heritage auction house prices in a PF70 grade ! So you got your answer 

PF69 is a lot less more like $1,600-$3,000 

A few weeks or months ago one got NO BIDs asking I think $13,000 or so on GC or HA.  So figure total cost of about $15K was too steep.  For a total cost of about $12,000 (give or take 10%), you can get the 70DCAM.  69-69's will run you $2K-$3K all-in.