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Posts posted by JTO

  1. I was burned over 10 years ago by a Dealer selling Silver Dollars by the roll.  He was selling on the come, sell then take the money and go buy the roll.  He got caught upside down by the metals run up and would not refund,  he strung me along for the 30 day protection period and then nothing.  He was well known in his community,  and I reported him to the Fed's.  The bottom line was that it was Visa that ultimately saved the day.  I never pay for anything on e-bay with cash or bank transfer unless it is under $10.



  2. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the "Royal" Canadian Mint is out of control and abusing the collecting public.


    Rarity does not always confer value.


    There may only be 20 or 50 of some of the subject coins, but again my opinion, they are going to be a prolonged flash in the pan.


    That said, do what you like. But with modern coins be careful about expecting to get a return on your investment in the long run.


    Just one opinion,



  3. I would like to add my 2c worth. I agree with a number of the discussants that it is unreasonable to expect NGC to bare the cost of manually and training PCGS coins into their registry. One option, which I suspect PCGS would agree to, is to have PCGS allow NGC to access their database. At that point whatever number you enter, assuming it's a valid PCGS Number would Auto populate the slot with everything from the correct grade and modifier ("+", details grade, etc...." to even the picture if that is available in the PCG S database. It should work as smoothly as when you use the "check certification" on the PCGS (or NGC website for that matter).


    I think this is a common sense no cost solution. And after experiencing the recent Election that means it clearly will not work. The likelihood of getting PCGS and NGC to cooperate is about is likely as Donald Trump appointing Hilary Clinton to his Cabinet.


    The reason I even bring this possibility up is because it would actually be in PCGS's best interest. I fear that NGC's decision to stop accepting PCGS will not work out well for NGC (to whom I have greater loyalty). Also the consequences of the current move may further destabilize the coin market, which, I perceive to be somewhat precarious at this time.


    My 2c worth,



  4. To Mark: I started a new thread because it had been a week since the original post and I want those, if any, who were looking for the grade to see it. Second based on your definition obviously all coins are in fact net graded. My point was when does an atribute constitute damage versus "negative eye appeal". Grading is subjective by nature but several sources (Such as the ANA grating standards, PCGS Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, Photograde, PCGS Photo Grading App, Coin World, Making the Grade...) give objective standard that attempt to instill an element of objectivity to the process.


    I felt that the coin was a VG, not a Fine, based on the above resources. Is the difference trivial, sure, but the HOBBY is filled with trivia and trivial issues. Those are what appeal to the odd brains of we coin collectors.

  5. Has NGC begun net grading coins?


    First, I apologize for the delay in posting the results, I am a working guy and got busy with my "day job".


    Thank you all for your thoughtful and insightful comments. Many of you identified correctly that there are rim bumps at the 11 o'clock position and 2 o'clock position. To give you a perspective on the significance of these they do not extend to the reverse of the coin (e.g. they do not involve the full thickness of the coin.)


    My dilemma is this: Based on all of the grating standards that I've been able to find this coin should grade VG and could possibly even grade Fine. My understanding is that the grade is based primarily on the amount the coin's wear. In different series the sharpness of strike also plays a role usually to add a positive attribute if the coin is well struck (i.e. full head designation for Liberty Standing Quarters, full split bands for dimes, full bell lines for Franklin half dollars...)


    The conundrum for me is that both PCG S and NGC state that they do not "net grade" coins. If the coin is a problem coin then it is listed as "unable to grade" and then assigned a "Details Grade" using the adjective (i.e. VG details) without a numerical score. This allows "problem coins" to be used in the NGC registry. There "problem coins" are given a value of one half of the lowest number for the category (for example a corroded coin that has uncirculated details gets one half of the score a "no problem" MS--60 coin would get. For people new to the hobby the ANACS historically would take into account problems and assign a "net grade" based on the underlying grade of the coin and the severity of the problem.


    Although the difference between G and VG is minor, as I looked at the coin I saw a Very Good or maybe even Fine-12 coin that was under graded. Now I am curious as to whether in fact NGC assigned a "net grade" based on a Very Good to Fine coin with rim damage. If so based on their grating policy they should have called the coin out as a problem coin and assigned to details grade.


    I welcome your input as to whether I should return the coin to NGC to be re-graded. In my opinion it is clearly better than a "Good--6" unless they're calling it a problem coin in which case that should have been stated on the holder.


    Again I thank you for your thoughtful comments and I await your insights.





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  6. I bought this coin and I wanted your opinion: what numerical grade would you give (1-70 Sheldon Scale).


    This coin is certified by NGC (not a Problem, Details, or No Grade coin). The grade assigned puzzles me and I would be interested in the collective wisdom of the group. I will post the grade, photo of the coin in holder, once I give you all a chance to vote on the grade you would assign as a grader for NGC or PCGS. If you think that the grade would be different between the two major services I would be interested in your opinion on that as well.


    Thank you for looking and please vote if you have an opinion.





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  7. As Gary points out, with the albums the real competition was not with another collector but rather with you, yourself. You competed to fill all the slots. Now with the Registries there is the added component of potentially competing against other collectors. When embarking upon a new Registry set I find the same spark of enthusiasm to fill the slots as when I brought home a new Washington Quarter album, or Franklin Half album. For me adding photography (pictures of each coin) brings it all together. I tried to replicate this with a few custom sets with little satisfaction.


    The custom sets are, at best, awkward to create. I have put together a complete (except the 1891 “with Motto” Quarter) New Orleans type set (as a custom set) and found that building it was as awkward as the grammar of this sentence. I certainly have seen some of the extraordinary award winning custom sets. They are beautiful!... But they are in fact extra–ordinary and that is fine. The awards that the owners received were certainly hard earned. Like the collection manager, the fields in custom sets are not easy to manipulate. As you build your set you have to carefully think ahead when you assign each coin a slot number to avoid needing to renumber you whole set. The experience is just not the same. Ultimately, for NGC, the proof of the value and quality of “competitive” versus “custom” sets is in the number of members participating in “competitive”, predefined sets, versus the number building custom (non-competitive) free field sets. The vast majority of sets are “competitive” or maybe better described as predefined sets not custom. And as for custom sets are they really non-competitive since they compete for awards as well?


    For better or worse “competition” in Registry sets is a major driving force the rare and modern coin market today. Otherwise how can you explain the fact that coins such as the 1928-S Peace Dollar in MS-64 has a greysheet value of $900 and the same coin graded MS-65 jumps to $17,000? Is an MS-65 coin really 19 times better looking than one in 64? Of course not. It is competition that drives all of this. Competition breads passion and the million or billion dollar question is: can the competitive passion be passed to the next generation of collectors? If not those who did feel that an MS-65 1928-S peace dollar was 19 times better looking will be left holding a ~$1000 coin that they paid 18.8 times more than it is worth in the market place.




  8. I think starting competitive sets for so-called dollars would be a win-win for collectors and NGC alike.


    Coins that are at the top grades for their type, date, and mint mark are becoming quite expensive, whether they are modern issues or 18th Century coins. So-Called Dollars have remained relatively affordable even for top population tokens. NGC is a leader in grading these coins in assigning the appropriate Hibler and Kappen (HK) designation. By opening repetitive sets in So-Called Dollars NGC would open the Registry to more people and allow for serious competition with a lower price tag.

    The above description is how the collector would benefit. I think that the Numismatic Guarantee Corporation would benefit by #1) as with world coins, make this an NGC only registry, #2) doing this would encourage the submission of So-Called Dollars to NGC that are not currently graded and #3) would step ahead of their major competitor, as they have in world coins, with So-Called Dollars.

    Just a thought after I purchased the 1901 Pan American Exposition official medical (So-Called Dollar HK--289). I made the purchase simply because I find the token beautiful.




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  9. A shattered 1797 Half Cent


    Here is s coin with a well recognized repunched date (1 over 1). I am curious as to what the markings are to the right of the upper 1. Are they the remnants of the re-punched date? There does not appear to be anything on the reverse to explain them as die clashes.


    It also has evidence of several major obverse die cracks. The cracks are described in a left-to-right fashion. Die crack #1 that runs from just before 12 O'clock to Miss Liberty's hairline And then appears to angle slightly to the left and disappears in her hair.. A second die crack (#2) from just past 12 O'clock runs in a wandering line that intersects the third crack in a perpendicular fashion just below the "Y" in Liberty. The third crack (#3) is more subtle crack and appears to go from approximately 2 O'clock just to the left of the Y in Liberty and then intersects Miss Liberty at her temporal scalp line. The fourth (#4) crack extends from approximately 4 O'clock upward Ending at the underside of Miss Liberty's nose. Finally there is what I believe is a die clash that extends from perpendicular to crack #3 and extending the intersection of the pole and Liberty's neck.



    See more journals by JTOThank you for reading my post, I don't presume to be a Numismatic expert, I just enjoy the hobby. I hope some of you have enjoyed this or other of my posts.John

  10. Hi Rick,


    I do a lot of business with Heritage, mostly buying. Remember that there is a 17.5% buyers premium that heritage tacks on and unless you are well known they will also charge a percentage on the front (seller's premium). You can usually talk you way out of the seller's premium but the buyer's premium is more difficult. If you are selling a Stella in top population or a Hawaiian 5c piece then you can negotiate to get a cut of the 17.5%, i.e. 105% of hammer price.


    BUT.... if you put in later date coins that don't have something special (top pop, amazing color, ect.) you may expect to get about 20% back of Greysheet (wholesale). It is a pain to sell them yourself but I have found that if there is a dealer that works with the coins you are selling you may be able work out a win, win situation, like ~10% back of Greysheet instead.


    IF.... your coins are really WOW coins and you think Heritage might find two bidders who are both willing and able to fight for them then you can score some real home runs and cash.


    My story from the ANA show in Dallas... I had a "problem" Original Gobrecht dollar that had been struck with a "strikethrough error" that someone tried to fix. They committed a felony by "fixing it" but in spite of the crime I thought that the coin was still acceptable. I also had a 1907 St. Gaudens High Relief with a FIN edge (wire rim) graded ANACS AU-55. I bought the coin 15 years ago before I knew that there would be only 2 acceptable holders. I talked with the folks at Heritage who said, and I already believed, that it was not likely to cross (and now they (NGC) break it out to decide.) The Gobrecht was a duplicate and the HR i wanted to use in the Registry,so what to do?


    The Gobrecht went in the Heritage Auction and the St. Gaudens HR, I traded for a stunning PCGS AU-58 with Jeff Garrett of Mid-America Coins for ~3k.


    The outcome was disappointing for the Dollar and I was happy with the High Relief deal and with Jeff. I wish I had not let the Gobrecht go that way. Even as bad as that may look to you I think $5k was too low. But that is just me.


    I wish you good luck and profit,




  11. Yes thank you. I have mixed thought about the rotation. When I have unintentionally slanted the slab on the photo stand then I fix it. In this case the reverse die is rotated relative to the obverse by a few degrees. So the photo is an accurate representation of the coin.


    That is, however, the same logic that got me in to trouble in the first place. The if I take a good photo then I don't need to have Photoshop (I worked my way through school and one of my jobs was a a event (sports concerts... photographer).


    It is more pleasing to the eye to have every thing in correct vertical and horizontal alignment or it is unsettling to look at a photo that is not. So to rotate or not?



  12. I have tried for years to crop circles Coins...


    Finally I have got cropping the circular coin down. To those of you who are Photoshop savvy this is dumb as dirt, but I just could not get my programs to do the job. All computer/digital picture are saved in pixels which are square. So cropping a square is easy but a circle is another issue. I tried to search on line a couple of years ago and got a ton of hits on "crop circles"... like aliens and corn fields. But I finally got the real Photoshop and puttered a bit and voila. I have a long way to go to get to the quality of some of you but this is a start.



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  13. Wrong complaining on NGC's web site should stimulate a response from NGC. And if not, now they know or should know that there may be a problem. Change can lead to improvement. Yea brilliant, make them all 90 days for all tiers except express, that is a true critical thinker. So what about the express tier is that okay to be 6 months?


    Maybe North Korea where everything is perfect. No complaining there and no change either, that must be a happy place.



  14. We are here because we like NGC, but all of you with the "whats the rush" and "everything is just fine" in my opinion are missing the point.


    The NGC web site says CURRENT TURN AROUND for each level. I pick the level based on how long I want to wait. I pay for that level based on the CURRENT TURN AROUND. When I get a time 2.5 to 3 X longer, I have not gotten what I have paid for.


    To MF you have prominently listed that you are with heritage, of which I am a legacy client. You made a bold statement that your experience has been very different than THB, that your experiences have all been good, fine. Now it is all good and it was all prior to your affiliation with heritage.... Okay...sure


    with all of the ridiculous animated emoji and apologist commentary what I am hearing is that mediocrity is fine in numismatics. Just sit, down shut up, and wait, wait wait your turn it is only a hobby.


    But it isn't is it? NGC makes a lot of money in grading fees and more for those of us impatient A holes who don't want to wait. And Heritage makes.... Mark any comment? This is a business and when you set expectations as a business you have an obligation to live up to them i.e. CURRENT TURN AROUND TIMES.


    I have a life and for brg5658 resorting to a stupid personal attack, it just shows the limit of you intelligence.

  15. Sadly my experience similar to that of The Honey Badger.


    The list of my issues is long and the forum members responding don't seem interested.


    I have two observations.


    1) Mark Field gets a prompt and courteous response because, just maybe because, he is representing the largest coin auction house in the world. He represents NGC's largest single client. Of course he gets red carpet treatment.


    2) The Honey Badger is not being impatient he is participating in a HOBBY for FUN! When I send my coins, off I anxiously await the grades. My most recent ancient submission sent at the "Early bird" level took 2.5 months! When the submission of coins becomes no more stimulating than paying bills then why bother?


    NGC and PCGS are in a position of power at this time. They are the portal to the registry sets. When it becomes more of a hassle than FUN then I will quit. I would venture to guess that so will others of us pesky collectors that just are a waste of time for the Big Boys (NGC and PCGS). But when that happens, and it will, unless NGC and or PCGS can find a way to keep us INTERESTED AND HAVING FUN.


    Said a different way: take the fun out of it and you have nothing NGC!


    This is not the first thread about poor customer service on this site. Like your teeth if you ignore them they will go away if NGC ignores us we will go away.

  16. I have read the references, Renaissance of American Coinage, Striking Change etc... The only St. Gaudens' works that I have found that is an approximation of this token are rough sketch book drawings. My main problem stems not from a retired mint worker seeking out a few extra bucks. It is from NGC slabbing them without reference to origin or description (i.e. from the US Mint or Govmint.com or Private minting and then are they So-Called Dollars or private tokens or…) To further muddy the waters if you go to the competitive NGC Modern Commemorative section and click on National Park Service, 100th Anniversary, 2016, Complete NGC has included these “things” right next to the US Mint coins. Currently on MCM the silver versions are available graded Pr-69, Pr-70 and Gem. If NGC is using this as a way to distinguish themselves from PCGS I think it is a big mistake.

    So, it is not Mercanti that I have a problem with it is NGC. The gold is selling for 3X melt and the silver is selling in NGC Slabbed Proof 70 for 10 times melt. Unless the park service is getting that money this deal stinks. Just my opinion,



  17. Thank you,


    I got the image from MCM but missed the description that you found. It is now listed in a way that would lead one to believe that it is of US origin. Having the signature of Mercanti is sleazy, in my opinion, because it reinforces the deception. The token has "Untied States of America" on the reverse. Now on closer inspection there is no value so it is a token not a coin but it is seriously close to counterfeiting, based on the definition of the Hobby Protection Act of 1973 and amended in 1988 .


  18. Is this a US Mint issue?


    Did the mint really sellout to the big marketers with no public release?


    I found this on MCM for an obscene amount. It appears to be a US mint issue and NGC has certified it giving it credibility. On the US Mint website there is no mention of this coin on the product schedule. can anyone tell me is the really what is? It seems to be a direct to marketers sellout by the US Mint completely cutting out the public. On the competitive set under the national park service this is listed with no points assigned. It is not a "non-competitive issue" (ie Norse medals) with 0 points, what the.....



    PS sorry for the re-post I did not have the picture correctly added to the first.



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  19. Did the mint really sellout to the big marketers with no public release?


    I found this on MCM for an obscene amount. It appears to be a US mint issue and NGC has certified it giving it credibility. On the US Mint website there is no mention of this coin on the product schedule. can anyone tell me is the really what is? It seems to be a direct to marketers sellout by the US Mint completely cutting out the public. On the competitive set under the national park service this is listed with no points assigned. It is not a "non-competitive issue" (ie Norse medals) with 0 points, what the.....



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  20. Thank you RWB I knew someone here would have the answer.


    And to Raving Nut..Maybe it is from someone NAMED General Services Administration and then it would all be okay... but it isn't. We don't have to call it a lie we can call it a unscrupulous marketing ploy, which is what I thought. But lie is easier.


    P.S. RWB I just bought your book "From Mine to Mint", Autographed. I look forward to reading it. I know I am getting old when I have more books than coins. Also after reading your Peace Dollar book when it first came out, I saw with rapt interest the counterstamped "1978 Carter Camp David Peace summit Dollar" and wondered where I could get one. It was in the last Long Beach HA sale and soon I will have it. That buy the book before the coin thing is sage advice.