coinsandmedals

@Just Bob you always have an open invitation if/when you find yourself in the area! You'll have to bring a few pieces from your collection when you come. You collect the type of oddities that I am not likely ever to see unless they are shared on these boards.

@Revenant, you win at eight months. I've had a submission sit on my desk for 4/5 months before, but I eventually get tired of it sitting there and find the time to drop it off. @Woods020, thank you for your kind words! Update: NGC has confirmed receipt of the package, but they have not opened it yet. What a sigh of relief.

@brg5658 and @Revenant you both are far too kind! To give you a better idea of what this would like, here are a few pictures (excluding the bar codes) of the pieces that NGC encapsulated for me back in 2019. It still amazes me that NGC is willing to take the time and effort to oblige a small-time collector such as myself. Unfortunately, these coins are not of the standard size accommodated by the multi-holders, so it takes some work to get them just right. This next batch should prove even more difficult given the different pedigrees.

It took me nearly six months to decide what to send, but I have finally convinced myself to submit a few of my better raw pieces for grading. This submission is a bit complex as it spans seven invoices and requires a few special requests. Luckily, my contact at NGC was more than willing to help. As many of you know, I have a fair number of Soho pieces that have retained their original shells. When possible, I have made an effort always to have the shells encapsulated alongside the coin in a multi-coin holder. Doing so allows me to ensure that the shells are less likely to be separated from the coin. After all, it would indeed be a shame to lose such a unique piece of Soho history that has been carefully curated over the last two centuries. In total I am only sending in 17 pieces for grading, but there are 43 items listed on the submission forms when including the shells. On any note, I wanted to share the pieces I am sending in (at least the ones I have pictures of). 1. 1799 Great Britain proof Farthing with shells 2. 1791 Jean Jacques Rousseau medal – proof with shells 3. 1800(11) Westminster Fire Office Medal – proof with shells 4. 1804 Bombay Presidency Pice – Multicoin Reholder - As can be seen in the picture - this slab looks like a game used NHL hockey puck 5. 1803 Madras Presidency 10 Cash - Multicoin Reholder - Another hockey puck holder 6. 1808 Madras Presidency 10 Cash - Multicoin Reholder - And yet another hockey puck holder 7. 1805 Ireland proof Penny with shells 8. 1793 Board of Agriculture Medal – proof with shells 9. 1800 George III Preserved from Assassination Medal –Proof with shells 10. 1803 Boydell's National Edition of Shakespeare's Works - with shells 11. 1802 Peace of Amiens Medal – with shells 12. 1793 Death of Gustavus III – proof with shells 13. 1793 Execution of Louis XVI of France – Final farewell – proof with shells 14. 1805 Bank of England $1 obverse die trial – proof 15. 1753 England ½ Penny 16. 1754 England Farthing 17. 1917 Costa Rica 10 Centavos Thank goodness for the $500 grading credit from the NGC registry awards last year. That combined with the account credit for my membership will help, but I will still have a relatively substantial bill coming my way once it is all done. I will be sure to post updates as they become available. Feel free to do a GTG if you feel so inclined.

@Revenant Thank you, I appreciate the feedback! I posted this on my computer and did not think to double-check it on my phone. I will consider your comments for future posts.

Congratulations all around! It seems like you've checked several things off your list in such a short period of time. I look forward to seeing the pictures once you get them done.

Thank you! The silver-lined brass shells are the original mint capsules that were at times paired with the coins. I wrote a detailed post on them some time ago (included below). I have recently discovered new information, so what I wrote there is not entirely accurate, but it hits the high points.

When I first started collecting Irish copper, I set a goal to complete a “type set” of the coinage struck at the Soho Mint. This set would only consist of three coins (i.e., an 1805 penny, 1805 halfpenny, and 1806 farthing). I limited myself to the business strike examples as I thought they would be more attainable given my budget. Within a year, I had a solid set built, and I have since been upgrading to nicer examples as they come up for sale. For instance, I recently upgraded the farthing from an MS-64 to an MS-66 example. Although the assigned grade is generally of little importance to me, in this case the 66 example was drastically superior to the 64. Likewise, I recently upgraded my penny from a brown (BN) to a red-brown (RB). I purchased both of these pennies raw and had them graded, and I am stoked that it is currently the only RB example graded at either NGC or PCGS. In both of these instances, a future upgrade is highly unlikely. I am still hunting for a suitable upgrade for the halfpenny, but I am in no hurry. With that set complete, my attention was then drawn to the proofs. My goal was simple, replicate the type set but with all proof examples. I decided to forgo adding gilt specimens as they are often much more expensive, and I generally do not find them particularly interesting. I had already acquired several very nice examples of the 1806 proof farthing by complete happenstance, so I only needed to track down the halfpenny and penny. The halfpenny proved to be a bit more challenging than I initially thought it would be. Most of the examples that came up for sale were gilt proofs, and the handful of non-gilt examples that were available were not very eye appealing. Eventually, a nice raw example came up for auction, and I did not hesitate to pull the trigger. As I often do, I had the coin graded mostly to protect it in the NGC slab and be able to display it in my custom registry sets. I was delighted when it came back with the cameo designation, but I regret not requesting NGC’s photo services as the toning paired with the cameo contrast make this coin a nightmare to photograph. Nonetheless, I have included my less-than-stellar photos here so you all can get a general idea of what it looks like. I now only lacked the 1805 proof penny, which would prove a sore topic for me until recently. The proof pennies tend to come up for sale much more frequently than either the farthings of halfpennies, which in part made me pickier about adding an example to the collection. I watched several very nice examples pass through various auction houses without placing a bid, mainly because these coins seemed to be selling for very strong prices. I did not want to pay an exorbitant price for a relatively common coin just to complete a set, but I was willing to pay more for an exceptional coin. I told myself that I would go all-in for a nice cameo piece (either graded or raw) or a nice example with the original shells. After a little over a year of searching, I stumbled upon my newest addition, an 1805 proof Irish Penny with the original silver-lined brass shells (pictured below)! It took me a bit longer than I initially expected, but I am happy to say that both of these type sets are complete! It is also worth noting that this is currently the only Irish piece in my collection that has retained its original shells. As some of you may know, I have a bit of a weakness when it comes to these pieces. For now, I am very excited to have this goal complete, but I may end up building another set in the near future. Maybe this time, I will include the gilt pieces.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback about how this was presented. I wanted to do something different, but in hindsight, this might have been too difficult to read. Any thoughts?

The two sound very similar in their general dispositions. Bill was the type of person who could easily connect with people. I recently joined the Conder Tokens Collector Club, and several members have mentioned how Bill's influence resulted in them pursuing an entirely new area of the hobby, often for decades! I believe I can safely add my name to that roster.

****I originally posted this in the journal section, but I remembered that many do not visit that section of the forums. I have decided to post it here as well. I apologize for “spamming” the boards, but I figure Bill’s passing deserves a larger audience.**** I learned several weeks ago that my friend, Bill McKivor, passed away. I have missed him sorely, but I refrained from posting about it until his family released an obituary (you can find that here). Many of you who knew him have likely already heard, but I wanted to post it here for those who have not. Bill and I did not meet until May of last year, but in the relatively short amount of time that I knew him, he quickly became one of my favorite people. Bill was an unusually kind and generous person who exemplified the type of comradery which often brings new people to this hobby. While talking with another gentleman who was well acquainted with Bill, he described Bill’s ability to carry on a conversation as legendary. This description seems more than appropriate to me. Bill and I initially emailed one another, but eventually, our messages got too long, and with the issues Bill often experienced with his outlook program, we decided to continue our conversations on the phone. We spent hours talking, and on more than one occasion, we had to end our conversation early because our phone batteries couldn’t keep up! I made a point to plug my phone up before our calls, but it never seemed to last long enough. In line with every other aspect, Bill was exceedingly generous with the information he had. I learned so much about the Soho Mint, Matthew Boulton, antique cars, tokens, and medals in such a short time. It never ceased to amaze me how much Bill knew about seemingly obscure topics, such as the silver-lined brass shells produced at the Soho Mint. I spent months researching the topic on the internet with little luck, but within 30 minutes, Bill had provided me with enough contextual information to provide a solid foundation for a short article. I hope to resubmit that article for publication soon, which I plan to dedicate in his honor. While discussing the silver-lined brass shells, Bill shared his passion for the medals produced at the Soho Mint, and this is the slippery slope that eventually led to my wallet becoming a bit thinner. He talked about the historical context of the pieces, the vast array of the art depicted on them, and the numerous nuances of collecting them. I eventually found myself pursuing several medals at an auction, and after winning, I quickly realized just how woefully underprepared I was for their arrival. These things were huge and of such high relief in comparison to the coinage. It did not take long for me to realize I was well out of my league insofar as storage was concerned. I called Bill for advice, and he provided some very helpful suggestions. About a week later, I received an unsolicited package from him with cloth holders to help store the larger medals that would not fit my extra-large flips. I offered to pay for them, but Bill refused. In another instance, he sent me a copy of The MCA Advisory (Vol 20, No. 3, May-June, 2017), which detailed his collection of Soho Medals to aid my research. Again, I offered to pay him for it, but he said helping was payment enough. He wanted no further conversation on the topic. That was just the type of guy he was. If he could help, he would, and he did so without an expectation of anything in return. Beyond Bill’s willingness, if not insistence upon being helpful, he was a thoughtful and genuine person. This was abundantly clear when we talked about politics, religion, marriage, travel, or just about every other topic that one can think of. He had so many extraordinary stories to share that always seemed to highlight the importance of some life lesson. He always encouraged me to grasp opportunities when they present themselves, and in part, this is what motivated me to start collecting medals. He piqued my interest by sharing his passion for them. I could not think of a better excuse for pursuing so many incredible pieces than having the guru to discuss them with! Had it not been for Bill sharing his passion, I would have almost certainly overlooked the medals and subsequently an essential part of Soho’s history. Any consideration of the Soho Mint is incomplete without also taking into account the role of medal engraving. As such, it seems fitting that his memory should live on in my collection as I pursue the very pieces that he once held in such high regard. I plan to build a detailed custom set, similar to my others, which highlights the rich history of the medals struck at the Soho Mint. I hope that by doing so, I may help others discover the series and perhaps extend the same generosity afforded to me by Bill. I regret to say that I only had the pleasure to purchase two items from him, both of which are pictured here. As you can see, Bill had a real eye for quality!

I learned several weeks ago that my friend, Bill McKivor, passed away. I have missed him sorely, but I refrained from posting about it until his family released an obituary (you can find that here). Many of you who knew him have likely already heard, but I wanted to post it here for those who have not. Bill and I did not meet until May of last year, but in the relatively short amount of time that I knew him, he quickly became one of my favorite people. Bill was an unusually kind and generous person who exemplified the type of comradery which often brings new people to this hobby. While talking with another gentleman who was well acquainted with Bill, he described Bill’s ability to carry on a conversation as legendary. This description seems more than appropriate to me. Bill and I initially emailed one another, but eventually, our messages got too long, and with the issues Bill often experienced with his outlook program, we decided to continue our conversations on the phone. We spent hours talking, and on more than one occasion, we had to end our conversation early because our phone batteries couldn’t keep up! I made a point to plug my phone up before our calls, but it never seemed to last long enough. In line with every other aspect, Bill was exceedingly generous with the information he had. I learned so much about the Soho Mint, Matthew Boulton, antique cars, tokens, and medals in such a short time. It never ceased to amaze me how much Bill knew about seemingly obscure topics, such as the silver-lined brass shells produced at the Soho Mint. I spent months researching the topic on the internet with little luck, but within 30 minutes, Bill had provided me with enough contextual information to provide a solid foundation for a short article. I hope to resubmit that article for publication soon, which I plan to dedicate in his honor. While discussing the silver-lined brass shells, Bill shared his passion for the medals produced at the Soho Mint, and this is the slippery slope that eventually led to my wallet becoming a bit thinner. He talked about the historical context of the pieces, the vast array of the art depicted on them, and the numerous nuances of collecting them. I eventually found myself pursuing several medals at an auction, and after winning, I quickly realized just how woefully underprepared I was for their arrival. These things were huge and of such high relief in comparison to the coinage. It did not take long for me to realize I was well out of my league insofar as storage was concerned. I called Bill for advice, and he provided some very helpful suggestions. About a week later, I received an unsolicited package from him with cloth holders to help store the larger medals that would not fit my extra-large flips. I offered to pay for them, but Bill refused. In another instance, he sent me a copy of The MCA Advisory (Vol 20, No. 3, May-June, 2017), which detailed his collection of Soho Medals to aid my research. Again, I offered to pay him for it, but he said helping was payment enough. He wanted no further conversation on the topic. That was just the type of guy he was. If he could help, he would, and he did so without an expectation of anything in return. Beyond Bill’s willingness, if not insistence upon being helpful, he was a thoughtful and genuine person. This was abundantly clear when we talked about politics, religion, marriage, travel, or just about every other topic that one can think of. He had so many extraordinary stories to share that always seemed to highlight the importance of some life lesson. He always encouraged me to grasp opportunities when they present themselves, and in part, this is what motivated me to start collecting medals. He piqued my interest by sharing his passion for them. I could not think of a better excuse for pursuing so many incredible pieces than having the guru to discuss them with! Had it not been for Bill sharing his passion, I would have almost certainly overlooked the medals and subsequently an essential part of Soho’s history. Any consideration of the Soho Mint is incomplete without also taking into account the role of medal engraving. As such, it seems fitting that his memory should live on in my collection as I pursue the very pieces that he once held in such high regard. I plan to build a detailed custom set, similar to my others, which highlights the rich history of the medals struck at the Soho Mint. I hope that by doing so, I may help others discover the series and perhaps extend the same generosity afforded to me by Bill. I regret to say that I only had the pleasure to purchase two items from him, both of which are pictured here. As you can see, Bill had a real eye for quality!

You paid for an opinion, knowing very well the cost associated with securing it. Your disappointment with the outcome is irrelevant. When you submitted these pieces, you were required to sign the bottom of the submission form, which serves as your acknowledgment of the terms and conditions provided to you. It is the submitter's responsibility to review these terms and conditions before submitting. Had you read them, you would understand that you are liable for the associated fees regardless of the authenticity of the coins. This is an inherent risk and failure on your behalf to understand that falls solely on your shoulders. That said, you were well aware of the £914.16 charge associated with your submission and the inherent risks involved before you sent them in. Any claim to the contrary is verifiably dull-witted. In my opinion, the larger conspiracy you suggest is so obnoxious that it does not deserve any further attention.

I fervently disagree with most of your points, and they highlight an inadequate understanding, or a complete lack thereof, of the entire submission process. Your anecdotal evidence as it relates to your "$1200" coin is irrelevant. Based on what I can gather from your account, the dealer submitted the coin on your behalf and absorbed the associated fees when it failed to cross. In your example, the fees were still collected by PCGS because a service was rendered. Regarding the original post, several coins were submitted that NGC determined were not genuine. Like your situation, an opinion was provided, and thus a service was rendered. The amount of time it took them to reach this conclusion is irrelevant to the point. The submitter is not due any special consideration because of their lack of due diligence before submitting them in the first place. Also, £900 is not a great deal of money in the grand scheme of things, but even if it were, it is irrelevant. Reading the comments of other posters, there seems to be a general lack of understanding of the policies and procedures associated with submitting coins to NGC. This information can be found on the NGC website, and I encourage you to read it before making comments out of hand. Failing to do so only adds further misinformation within a thread that is ripe with poor judgment. Arguing that paying a fee based on estimated value is unfair when the coin's value is reduced by 90-99% is complete hogwash. Although I am not sure about PCGS, NGC has consistently urged collectors to submit their coins through an authorized dealer. Doing so affords the submitter a professional opinion before NGC collects any associated fees. It is the submitter's responsibility to determine the declared value, and if they are unsure how to do so, they are advised to seek a professional who can. In this case, the submitter claims to be an expert, so in reality, they only have themselves to blame for the outcome. In my opinion, the original post is an ill-informed and unwarranted hit piece on NGC. I see no harm in calling it for what it is.

Thank you for sharing! It appears similar technology was already in use at the Soho Mint by 1799. I can’t help but wonder what our coinage would have looked like had Boulton provided either coinage or machinery to the U.S. Mint from its onset.

I’d call that an MS-65.

Thank you! The NGC registry has indeed been an invaluable platform for me to share my collection and passion for the history it represents. I imagine this is a lot of work on your behalf, but please know that it is much appreciated.

@RevenantThe same thought crossed my mind. Despite the craziness of 2020 and the staff shortage they are experiencing, they still took the time to find something special to send us. In my opinion, that speaks to their dedication to the hobby and collectors alike. The effort is very much appreciated! I took the opportunity to share my experience on my "coinstagram" and it generated a fair number of comments. With any luck, it might persuade a few others to participate here.

Congratulations to you as well! You make several excellent points, which are even more impressive when considering how many they gave out. I am thrilled with the coin I received, although it will likely remain the only Morgan dollar in my collection for some time.

It looks like we will be in close proximately to both Hobby Lobby and Michael's this weekend. I might swing by both and weigh my options. The tip about the coupon is very helpful! I know Hobby Lobby does this most of the time, but I did not realize that Michael's ran the same promotion. My wife let out a little chuckle when she entered my office yesterday and noticed I had rearranged the top of my bookcase to accommodate the new plaque. Her sister and mom are coming to stay with us this weekend, so I am sure I will get a hard time from them all.

Once again, congratulations! You have a rather impressive set of plaques there. For the record, the Morgan I received was number -036, but it would be interesting to see who received the first and last number.

Wow, I overlooked that until you pointed it out. I’ve since corrected it, but maybe I should have left it. Thank you!

The first part of your response really made me chuckle! I’m sure I have it coming if I keep up at this pace. Oh, Michael’s is a good thought. I purchased my last one at Hobby Lobby, but the closest one is over an hour away. I may check Michael’s if we find ourselves in that area this weekend. I appreciate the tip! Thank you! Likewise, you’ve amounted a good number yourself over the years. How many are you up to now?

The last few weeks have been very busy. Perhaps this is why I was so surprised to find a package from NGC in my mailbox today. I was so excited that I did not make it to the front door before I had the package ripped open and the coin in hand. Usually, I make an effort not to open coin-related mail outside, but my excitement got the best of me. On any note, I received an 1881 S Morgan Dollar graded MS-64 with the notation of “2020 NGC Registry Award Winner” on the label. This is the only silver dollar I have in my collection, but I plan to display it along with the plaque. The cert verification images do this coin no justice, so I took a few very quick pictures. Photographing silver dollars is entirely new to me, so this proved an interesting experience. As I noted in one of my previous journal entries, I have been slowly gathering lower-value coins to hone my photography skills, so photographing this coin was a real treat for me. I am not entirely happy with how the pictures turned out, so I plan to retry once I have more time. In 2019 I won the most creative custom set award, and that plaque has been proudly displayed on top of the bookcase behind my desk since it arrived. I plan to take a trip to Walmart tonight to find a stand for the 2020 award so that they can be displayed together. I can’t help but wonder how my wife will react when I add it alongside the other. She is very supportive, but she still likes to tease me about my “mega nerd” hobby now and again. I had the pleasure of speaking with one of the higher-ups at NGC the other day to request a special favor, and it reconfirmed everything I knew about NGC. I am a small-time collector, yet this gentleman took the time to discuss my request and encouraged me to send my items his way. It never ceases to amaze me how dedicated NGC is to the hobby and how willing they are to go the extra mile to help collectors. I have already figured out how to spend the $500 grading credit generously provided by our hosts to further my collecting goals, which I hope to detail in a future journal. I want to thank NGC and the staff for their consideration, and I look forward to competing again this year! Once again, congratulations to all of the winners!