CyberspaceVoid

Yarm,

I would have to imagine it has some verbiage on the "third side"....

Hi Ali,

Please add a missing Swiss Shooting Medal to the Registry, in particular:

1954 Lausanne, CH 1954 Lausanne Federal Schützenfest, (Richter 1649x), composition 0.900 Hafnium?, engraver A. Lasserre

Many Thanks

Not the best pic (thru plastic) but it'll do for now

Wow, you have some crazy good reading skills! Not exactly sure if it's right .... but it could be .....

Agreed!

While rotary steam engines had been in existence since the early 1780's no one else had put them to press coins before Matthew Boulton's Soho Mint, and it remained that way thru at least his 1798 minting of royal coinage. The secret was not the engine itself but how to connect it, and since Boulton was always watchful for industrial espionage no one else was successful in duplicating it for many years. (Of course the economics in minting limited numbers of tokens was a big factor ... royal coinage was necessary to make it viable.) For 8 years (1789-1797) Soho was the only producer of Conder tokens (and a few foreign tokens/coins) by steam-driven presses until at least after the 1797 "regal" issues were made(there is a story here too, but I digress.)

When Boulton set up his second mint in 1798-99 he sold his "sun and planet" (rotary) engines to another mint in Birmingham, but I don't know if he also sold the original catchment system which operated the press action ....I seriously doubt he would have done so. Boulton kept the original Soho presses to use in his new mint but instead of a steam-driven mechanical catchment the presses were now operated by pistons and cylinders attached to a vacuum or "spirit" tube.

In 1802 a former engraver at Soho, Jean-Pierre Droz, set up his own steam-driven system for the French Mint claiming it was originally was his idea. After Matthew Boulton's death in 1809, his son decided to sell mint equipment, starting with the Royal Mint in 1810, and only grudgingly minted from that time onward.

Another fine example, Hard Times ... thanks for sharing

I think this particular token (Warwickshire 353) is documented to have been struck in 1789, not in 1787 as the date indicates. While John Gregory Hancock, an engraver for Matthew Boulton, is credited for the early Wilkinson Forge tokens (later copied by Rambert Dumarest) this one is not thought to have been pressed at the Soho Mint. Although the copper might have been rolled and blanked at Soho, the location of the hand presses used are thought to have been in either Holywell or Birmingham .... do you have any idea of what mints might have been in use at the time?

I am a bit confused .... What part of Canadian coin collecting is related to Thailand?

(Only real reason I am a bit miffed is due to the fact I am currently sitting in Bangkok and the collecting scene here is virtually non-existent. You got me excited for a moment ...)

Excellent "ribbage"

Incredible Wildman ... almost makes my hair stand on end!

Nice token, Yarm. I found most 19th century British tokens are very hard to find in unc condition.... this one is stellar.

The "Lions" are indeed spectacular ..... in fact, my first Conder was Till's other design, a D&H 22.... NGC lists it at a MS-63, but I think it should have been graded a tad bit higher.

https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/wcm/CoinView.aspx?sc=203726

Brandon,

Thanks for that link to the D&H pdf file! I had no idea it was available for download, and it now also resides on my laptop. I agree, the "Ultimate Guide" is also a great product ... I just couldn't find a link to it while I am sitting here in SE Asia. The hard drive on my personal laptop had crashed and I lost all my references available to me here I will be soooo glad to get back to the States and all my "stuff"

Conder,

I will have to look into that new work from Bill McKivor ..... knowing his material (and I lust after a lot of his coppers) it should be an extraordinary volume.

Cheers to both!

W

Monolith,

I don't know .... your token looks might fine to me!

D&H is indeed a catalog system, and the term refers to Dalton & Hamer who compiled a massive, but apparently not entirely complete, listing of the late 18th century merchant tokens (named at least in America) after an early British collector named James Conder who created one of the first catalogues. The D&H catalogue has been out of print for many years although copies can still be found if you are lucky. Fortunately there are rumors that a new edition is in the works, and there is also a more recent electronic catalogue entitled The Provincial Token-Coinage of the 18th Century Digital Quick Reference by NumiSource, LLC (ISBN-13: 978-0-9841402-0-6 or ISBN-10: 0-9841402-0-4) if you don't have a couple of hundred dollars to spend or don't want to wait.

The way the catalogues are set up is first by "country" (England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland), then by county /shire, and finally by number. There is no particular rhyme or reason to the assigned number other than using an alphabetic suffix for a variety (sometimes, but not always). Let's just say that cataloging these was more of an art than a science .....

As there are about 10,000 different tokens you might want to try and concentrate on some type of a theme. .... for instance, at the current time I am trying to put together a set of items from Matthew Boulton's Soho Mint for a club presentation. Whatever you chose to collect it will be well worth your time, just don't bid against me! Kidding of course (no I'm serious (shakes fist) ).

The people in on this thread are extremely helpful, so if you have a question just ask and I am sure someone will be glad to answer. Welcome to the wonderful world of Conder Tokens!

Cheers!

Wendy

Re: Warwickshire DH-20 "Lion's Den"

Darn .... you're out of the country for a bit and one of the ones that got away from me before is "rehypothicated" ..... good to see it again at least

Nice pieces, HT.

The toning on these makes them much more attractive than most of these "later Conders".

Another VERY positive BST deal with Deerefan8420. Fast delivery, great packaging, exactly what I thought I purchased ..... what more could you want!

Thanks, Jason, I will be looking forward to your next deal.

Very happy with this new token. Intense colors, prooflike glassy surfaces, cool reverse inset lettering surrounding Standing Justice. Just way too many attractive things to pass up.

Interesting to see it has the large rim of the regal penny made in the same year. Do you know if they came out before or after?

Just picked up a package from gpnyc ... wow, nice packaging! He was a pleasure with whom to do business, had great communication and is high recommended.

Cheers!

Wendy

aka CyberspaceVoid

Yarm,

Great looking token! I have begun a small set of Spence tokens over the last few months myself .... one is in my registry while the others are not yet slabbed. Spence was quite a interesting character although he might have been labeled as a socialist today. Still, his tokens are a doable set, and his typical engraver, James, created some of the more attractive tokens in the Conder series. Did he mint his own tokens or do you have any knowledge of a manufacturer?

Amazing! Now why can't our engravers do things like that today?

I looked several up myself, they seem to be attributed just no grade except for the -008 at "F". Perhaps the grade wasn't entered? I hope so otherwise they might be considered to be "body bagged" (non-gradable but genuine) ... surprising for ancients unless they had really been played with really hard.

Beautiful token, Yarm!

I hadn't seen this particular Spence shilling before, only the halfpenny with the similar running stag design. I had to look up Epping Forest on Wikipedia and found it is "an area of ancient woodland in south-east England, straddling the border between north-east Greater London and Essex. It is a former royal forest..."

Considering one of Spence's pet rants was to abolish the kingdom and redistribute the royal lands amongst the people I am surprised he depicted it on one of his tokens in such a delightful manner .... perhaps it was to encourage poaching? Spence was such a rebel I wouldn't put it past him!

I was also a bit taken back that his typical engraver's name "James" wasn't on this particular token. Any insight?

Very nice, Najat!

I dont understand the 62 grade on that lustrous beauty ... I think it should be a 64 at least.

Blame it on the 10 seconds or less they allow per coin in grading