Hard Times

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  1. From Wikipedia: "Hard-times tokens are large cent-sized copper tokens, struck from about 1833 through 1843, serving as unofficial currency. These privately made pieces, comprising merchant, political and satirical pieces, were used during a time of political and financial crisis in the United States." It is unavoidable to separate political satire with the idea of a Hard Times token. Currently one minter makes Hard Times tokens, Clark and Gruber Company. In a previous thread, I suggested an idea for a current HTT publicly, with all sincere intent of presenting in the spirit of political satire. Yet, some of you decided to make it political, even when I invited anyone to take any other political figure of these Hard Times and suggest motifs and sayings for an HTT. Because you made it political (and you know who you are), the thread was poofed. It is too bad, and apparently there is alot of pent up anger going around, because if everyone would have just taken the thread as it was intended, we could have had some fun with it. I was looking forward to others ideas for HTTs for the other political figures - there is certainly alot of materials out there these days and I presented just one and what that person has said. Folks that is how political satire works. Some you apparently can't distinguish political from political satire. I never once stated my views on the current politics and none of you know how I voted, nor did I state my view on that politician or anyone, it was not a political post in any way. I just picked the most obvious figure, what that person had said, and used it for an idea for POLITICAL SATIRE. Hard Times tokens are one of my passions. Of course I am going to think about new political satire HTT's just after an election and of course I am going to present to what I believed to be open minded colleagues. I was apparently wrong. What gets me about the poof is all of the hypocrisy by doing so. For example the Carr threads have been totally political and posters have been very nasty towards each other, but NGC thinks these are okay to stand. Emotions and accusations on each side have been high, but NGC lets them stand. Same with Langbord threads, yet poofs mine with no political intent, and then sends me a warning for politcal threads. One word NGC - Yikes. As long as there are some that hijack every thread and twist it here, and seem to have nothing better to do with their time, and you know who you are, then, a rational discussion of any lively subject is not going to happen. Hence, I am gone, you can PM me ATS if you want. I hope someone keeps my long running HTT and Conder token threads going because I believe they are important records for historically significant series and having a collective of images is something worth doing, even if NGC won't make the effort to keep them at the top as they do some other, less viewed threads. OUT, HT
  2. That is how I read it as well, but Mr. Salzberg clearly stated that: "After three decades as an NGC grading finalizer, I can say with confidence that our grading has remained accurate and consistent since the earliest days of the company. " How accurate is that? I do believe that right now NGC is very strict, but has that always been the case? Have they been consistent and what does that mean? Best, HT
  3. But what is a good law, what is a bad law, is subject to personal opinion........
  4. I buy 99.99% slabbed, I am not in the album filling part of numismatics and I don't buy modern. Best, HT
  5. Since the original design in question that you are copying and that the ROM was copying was made by the US Mint, how can that possibly be your intellectual property rights? Mentioning 'similar to Carr' is just an extension of saying 'similar' to the US Morgan Dollar design. Now if they copied your HTT's without your permission, with or without referring to you in the listing, then that likely would be considered your intellectual property rights. Best, HT(T)
  6. No question about most of what you say here, Mr. Carr is a true artist and produces stunning pieces, I especially love the HTT's. No one has suggested othewise. But that is not what we are discussing here. However, many credible numismatists (and apparently lawyers) raise concerns on the legality of these pieces. My concerns are two fold - one do the fantasy pieces without the word COPY comply with the HPA, and two the risks he takes by copying the likeness of a US coin without such compliance. Feds can be very unfriendly once they decide to take action. I have personal experience with this. I would stay as far away from making these fantasy pieces as I would from a croc in a river in Africa. For both, you get eaten alive if things go wrong. Not worth the risk, it seems Mr. Carr could be just as productive in the hobby without these risks. Best, HT
  7. Only the title was changed to remove the language concerning the piece being similar to Carr. Wrong
  8. So generic meds on a store shelf that have in writing on their packages that their product is 'similar to X' med is misleading? It seems to be legal since there are 100s of these every time I go through the meds at my local store. Seems like ebays policy is likely violating some kind of federal law if indeed one cannot compare your product to another. In addition, how many advertisements do just that - compare directly with the competing product? Well I will answer that for you - 1000s upon 1000s Disfiguring a fantasy piece with the word COPY complies with the HPA act. It is thus required by law whether the producer likes it or not. Life is tough, then you die. Best, HT
  9. All the listing said was something like 'compare to Carr'. That is like when you buy generic medicine on the grocery store shelf - the package of the generic meds will say 'compare to XXX', which must be legal since 100s to 1000s of generic meds with such wording are out there in the marketplace. So I think it is extreme to suggest that is violating Intellectual Property Rights. In fact it is advertisement for your pieces. The folks ATS that hammered on the Royal Mint to change the title of the listing seem to want you to succeed against the more compliant pieces. Good for them. I can't help wonder if this is more about sticking in the face of the feds by you continuing to defy the HPA than it is about the Royal Mint also having similar pieces that are compliant with the HPA? After all, clearly your pieces are superior in quality even if non-compliant...... This kind of attitude of 'it is us against the gubermint' is fairly prevalent in the US right now, alot of angst as we are seeing the elections is just one example. The anti-gov numismatic types have embraced the defiant Carr and his pieces the violate the HPA as part of their rhetoric. Best, HT
  10. roger that, the slow image load is a real pain, was not like that with their previous version. Otherwise, agree it is a step up. Best, HT
  11. In layman's speak, what the heck is a replevin or declaratory judgement action? Lawyer talk Best, HT
  12. See link to ATS where there is a link to the filed Writ. I wish them all of the good fortune in the world to right this wrong........ 1933 dubble aegels Best, HT
  13. You could have just said that the coin isn't one that you would buy and leave it at that. Instead, you have to announce your disdain for a fellow collector who happens to appreciate the coin more than you do. Personally, I like the coin and "MS-63" is a ridiculously-low assessment of the grade. Do you have any coins for sale ? An opinion of 'disdain' is not allowed on these boards? Personally, I have no problem with any opinion on these boards, disdain or otherwise. I think Roger's opinion is well thought out and courteous, and it could be that indeed someone spending $20K on a coin that is as common as nails is pretty darn dumb after all, so saying such, well that is Rogers right. I thunk you be calling him out because of other dialect that has gone on in these boards between you two..... Best, HT