Michael Byrne

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Why Are Conder Tokens in Such Good Shape

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MIKE BYRNE

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Hi everyone. This is a question that people ask me all the time. Well the circulated ones are not. Face it they were used to buy food and clothes. You can see the red and brown and also the proof like. Why is that?. Well Britain has been around for centuries. They learned fast. There are tokens uncirculated that would shock you with there value. Now many of these great token were collected by professional collectors. They were kept in a wooded chest with drawers. I have seen them for sale in Heritage. The wood is very hard wood. And they had wooden circles and felt on the bottom of the drawers. They were kept way from the fire place and Windows and very rarely opens or handled.

     Now you figure that was good for about a hundred years and sold to auction houses. There they never saw the light of day until an auction. Some are still in the vaults the original color still there the first ones off the die you see you're finger reflection five inches away. They were never stored in little white envelopes with cotton inside. That was done at auction time. There were taken care of uncirirculaded and should be given the respect of some of our current coins.. Some are 225 years and say no way. That's because you don't know the history of them. If you know the history behind how these were taken care of you would understand a MS 66. If that's what it calls for that's the way it should be graded. Never never hold a good grade from a token if it deserves it. I just told you how they were taken care of. They were treated with care because the workmanship means so much. These were a collectors prized possession. They knew what they were worth. They took care like we take care of ours. Yes ours are new. But these were treated with care respectable and understanding. That's Why They grade well . The only thing in the basement was coal for the fire. They were never stored there. I tell this to people who collect them. The best place to buy these is were they all were made England. So if you want these in the shape they were made in there is only one place. English auctions. When they come out of the vaults they glisten like the sun. So I say to the graders the ones being sent to you they were taken care of like a baby. They were proud of there workmanship. When a grader looks at a Conder token don't look at the date look at the token. And be fair. I know there are 67 out there and should  be more. Just grade it like one made today you will be shocked at how well these pieces of art in copper and bronze are. All I ask is now you know part of the history you will know them better be fare. If you don't like them don't grade them because your taking it out on history. History of out hobby. Thanks for reading this I hope you picked something up. Mike

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Sweet!! How they were taken care of? We're most in Seriously Early collections or Hoards found? The English and them being proud of their s right? 

Are they're any condor token errors? Different from off center or thick thin planchet? 

 

 

 

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I can only speculate.  The British were into coin collecting much earlier than us, here in the Colonies.  Perhaps some upper class Brits put them away in their cabinet when first manufactured, so they are near perfect for you to collect today.  Maybe the mint employees also took great pride in producing these wonderful tokens and that might have also made them especially well made from the onset.  The important thing, you have protected a piece of important British history and for that you should be commended.

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On 5/12/2019 at 11:25 AM, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

Sweet!! How they were taken care of? We're most in Seriously Early collections or Hoards found? The English and them being proud of their s right? 

Are they're any condor token errors? Different from off center or thick thin planchet? 

 

 

 

Hi.. No there are no varieties in ancients old times the machines were steam presses so if there was and there are many they are not taken in to consideration. The planchects were different size some thin some thick. Most are bronze but they don't give me that option on the Registry. There are no hoards of these found these were collected. Some were used to purchase items so those have a lot of were on them. Thanks mike

Edited by MIKE BYRNE

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1 hour ago, Mokiechan said:

I can only speculate.  The British were into coin collecting much earlier than us, here in the Colonies.  Perhaps some upper class Brits put them away in their cabinet when first manufactured, so they are near perfect for you to collect today.  Maybe the mint employees also took great pride in producing these wonderful tokens and that might have also made them especially well made from the onset.  The important thing, you have protected a piece of important British history and for that you should be commended.

Hi my friend. That's what I said. These were high end die sinkers and the ones I buy were already preserved in those tightly sealed wooden boxes. Then they were given to the auctioneer some never saw the light of day for over a hundred years sitting in felt and covered the ones how to take care of these simply by the quality the detail. Then some collectors would come over your house and look at them no hands some were sold the rest out back and naively sealed . That's why there are MS 67 out there after 240 years. We can't get modern cents to grade that well. So my hat goes of to citizenship took care of them for us. That MS I just got back you can count the bricks the Windows everything. Compare them to the pictures today. Remember it was built in 1506 and even after renovations they look the same. Thanks my friend.

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I remember some auctions back in 2006-2008 had some really rare high quality ones...

Anyway, there was one that CRO had they bought back, it was in Newman's collection I thought? 

 

I haven't made them a priority....

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Newman did own some Conder tokens I saw one with his label it was the Franklin Pres. He never collected medals fr

On 5/12/2019 at 3:53 PM, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

I remember some auctions back in 2006-2008 had some really rare high quality ones...

Anyway, there was one that CRO had they bought back, it was in Newman's collection I thought? 

 

I haven't made them a priority....

Mr. Newman did have some in his collextion. In saw one with his label it was the Franklin Press. He never collected medals.I have herd. There quality is still out there I just received some tokens back 64 to 66. There sold at auction not ebay. Thanks Mike

Edited by MIKE BYRNE

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This box was made here in the middle of the 19th century. The ones in England looked somewhat like this there were different versions. I don't have a picture of the inside . The ones from England i did see the inside. There was a whole that was made to fit the token. In the bottom they placed a felt like material and a cover on top. They were not treated like garbage this were expensive tokens the only thing in the basement was coal.. This box was placed away from heat and windows. Sometimes even faced  the wall.  This kept the elements out the best they could. That's why you have them red brown and no scratches and proof like. Graders know none of this and take it out on the token. That's so wrong. If they knew they would respect them like any other coin or token in the hobby. People who have personal feelings about them should not be grading them. I'm sorry but that is a fact. The more you know about the token the better respect they should get. Thank you. This picture came out of the 2020 Mega Red. I received it yesterday.May 15. Enjoy. Mike.

20190515_160740_HDR.jpg

Edited by MIKE BYRNE

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"Pieces of art in copper and bronze." That is one of the best descriptions of these tokens that I have read. Both my wife and I have started collecting some modest ones. All we buy are from England. You are correct in that they sell the best..I have seen some other photos of the chest they were stored in. Works of art in beautiful wood.What a collection they would make.. It is sad that the graders here don't seem to understand how they should be graded and their D&H numbers as well as the writing on the edges. The wrong D&H number can mean a fortune. Thanks Mike. I always learn from you.

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On 5/16/2019 at 11:31 AM, longstrider said:

"Pieces of art in copper and bronze." That is one of the best descriptions of these tokens that I have read. Both my wife and I have started collecting some modest ones. All we buy are from England. You are correct in that they sell the best..I have seen some other photos of the chest they were stored in. Works of art in beautiful wood.What a collection they would make.. It is sad that the graders here don't seem to understand how they should be graded and their D&H numbers as well as the writing on the edges. The wrong D&H number can mean a fortune. Thanks Mike. I always learn from you.

Thank you. I just don't buy these like a silver eagles. I have studied them. Books. The more you learn the more you have respect for it. I have learned about the making of the planchet or flan as they call it and yes the edge writing could mean thousand in value. It also determine rarity. If a token has D&H 703. That means one thing if it says 703a that means the edge writing is different and there could be maybe 100 or these increasing the value. So yes it's important P.C.G.S. Does not even start the edge writing on the label. N.G.C. does. But you need the book to get it all or if you hold it up to the light you can make it out. Now the book is free on line. The Token & Coinage of The 18th Century. By Dalton And Hammer. That's our bible. It's exactly like the book however it's not written like a current book you have to learn it. I'm here for any questions you may have. Thanks Mike.

Edited by MIKE BYRNE

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