Michael Byrne

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British Tokens of The 18th Century.

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MIKE BYRNE

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Hi fellow collectors. Well some.of you are saying there he goes again with these tokens. There is a reason for this. Like myself I know.many of you have never heard of these. Now.They made thousands of these. Some with large mintages some.with very low. By the way they were measured by ton. Not as individual tokens. There is a token I just read about only sixteen were made. The current bid is over a thousand but will go hover before the auction.. Now I just put up a set of twelve. Remember the difference  I said before the Brutish way of grading does not use the Sheldon scale. Now. MS 65 here is classified as is in England. That means like it just came of the die.. That's why a MS 62 to 65 here is worth more in England than here. However to get that grade is hard. Your dealing with tokens from the 1700's. 

     This new set i will add into one two every two weeks or so. I don't want to put to many up at one time. I haven't even al my comments up . In was extremely tired. NGC gets all of the credit for there help. Now you will see MS 66 ,65, proof likes penny's and half penny's. The penny's are the size of half a dollar and broke many dies.. So you learn to appreciate them more. Now you just don't look at one and say this will grade a MS. There are many A/U that are just as beautidul. Why a little where will drop them down that's is far  beyond me. These tokens are just as good as a MS.

    You can tell I'm American because I'm talking MS and A/U. Never in Britain. I use those terms because many send them in hoping for a good price. Again we don't care if it's Uncirirculaded that's all we are about. I wish they would just slab them without a grade to preserve the color and the detail. I was taught buy the coin not label. Well if your looking at a piece of coal and the label says MS 65 what's the point. You want to see the art one copper. You want to see the different parts of the British Isles. They were made in Ireland ,Scotland ,every were that Flag flew they made them. That's the beauty of them. Famous Abbey Cathedrals people buildings that have been standing for hundreds of years. These are the tokens I'm talking about. A school teacher in class. Farms and different equipment of the day. Wool and looms yes sheep were a large part of the economy. These are tokens. All different all beautiful and to this day I have seen them in MS 67. You dnt get that grade in modern coins. That's the Brutish token. We're lucky they took such great care of them. We must do the same. We must pass on this part of our hobby history. They took care of them for us how about future generations. Yes we owe it to them also. So take a peek you just might like what you see. Enjoy them like I do. Not only as art but as the history of a country. Thanks Mike. By the way since I have started with twelve it's now grown to 18. Each week I try to add one to keep everyone up to date. I'm up to17  now. Mike

Update. I did receive a phone call from a wonder person at NGC.we spoke for about forty minutes even though she was very busy. Well we agreed to disagree. She made some excellent points. I also made some excellent points. The problem started years ago . The cause of this was the Red Book. You see the token made it to America and because of the time they put it in with the colonials  it does not belong in the red book. It never circulated here only with collectors it was never used as money. Never used as a trade token it just sat in a collectors box so if it wasn't used at all what's it doing in the red book.? The deluxe book says it's a Conder token made in England. It does not say we're it was made it doesn't give the D&H referance number. It's used to fill space in the book. Yes there are some without D&H numbers they don't need them. This does. I have books on all the tokens made. We're they were made. There books made in England were they belong. This token was made in Middlesex it's a D&H 307b no edge writing and a common token. Does the red book tell you that no. So I think I know why this token will for now not be corrected. Because they all have the wrong label on them and it would be a massive effort to correct it. It's wrong. I am just starting my new strategy to correct this I will not give up. Franklin lived in England. It's were his token was made collectors have the right to know the truth about this and in will not stop. I already know.we're to start. Wish me luck. I will try my hardest hit to let Conder tokens collectors down. I would like to thank the person inspire to I will not use her name with it permission and respect. She was very nice to me and treated me with great respect. After I got it the phone I had more respect for her than before. I was lucky to speak with her. So thank you NG C and your wonderful representative and is a credit to your company. Your lucky to have her. When I get out of the hospital I will start my quest. To fix a great injustice to a man respected on both sides of the Atlantic. Future updates will be coming. Thanks Mike.

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I have heard these tokens mentioned but never really learned much about them. After reading your post I did an image search and was surprised at the HUGE variety. I look forward to learning more as time allows and as you share more. 

 

Thank you

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Well I know these are not big in the hobby simply because there tokens. They have played a big part in history. So I decided to pass on some information. The impossible set five years made me physically sick. So I had to share it with as many collector's to see not collect . We never ever tell anyone what to collect. Not only important but some are very pricey. But the cheaper ones are nice also. There much bigger than our civil war tokens . The mintages are somewhere in the ball park. They have ones very few. I have one of Queen Victoria only four made. Most of the designs were made of the actually places some of sketches but very accurate. There exciting and there different. I just want to share them. They will stay in the family. Thanks for the interest. Mike

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21 hours ago, thisistheshow said:

I have heard these tokens mentioned but never really learned much about them. After reading your post I did an image search and was surprised at the HUGE variety. I look forward to learning more as time allows and as you share more. 

 

Thank you

Well I sent an answer before I'm new so bear with me. These tokens like our civil war tokens saved a nation. They were much bigger than ours and the variety is unbelievable. The die sinkers set very talented and they go from forty  dollars up to tens of thousands. There much bigger and detail was very important so much that collectors collected them.Kempson in my opinion was one of the best along with many others and everyone tells a story. At the ANA when I write a blog I always include a picture of what they look like today. Like the Bank of London. Now the set I put together is an actual set I didn't make it up. That's why it took five years to finish. I believe and many others also many of the experts it is the only set left that is completed. It is one of a kind. I followed the books to the letter right now I'm having a hard time keeping 272 up there I have asked for help. There are 19. Not 18. Enjoy them and the detail. Thanks Mike

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I'm in non competitive to old for ribbons custom sets there are two. The very rare Kempson set of Coventry and  British tokens of the 18th century. The detail is remarkable. It's not on the Beta side there not finished with tokens and medals yet. Mike Byrne

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These can be viewed my going to the Custom Sets and clicking on Tokens. Thanks for putting this set up Mike.This journal article is great. Please keep them coming. I am learning tons. I even have a bid down on a token from Scotland. Just what I needed, another place to spend my money. haha! Thanks Mike.

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I just went over to the Beta custom sets and looked at both of yours. Very nice!! I can only imagine that they need to be viewed in person to appreciate the artistry. As I've said, I have recently become interested in medals and tokens. I am on a very small collecting budget, so viewing these tokens on here is as close as I will get for now. Thanks for taking the time to post your sets.

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I should have said you need to be in the Collectors Society first. Then click Registry, then the Custom, then Tokens and Medals. Then go down the list to Mike Byrne. He is down about two right now. Thanks.

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1 minute ago, longstrider said:

I should have said you need to be in the Collectors Society first. Then click Registry, then the Custom, then Tokens and Medals. Then go down the list to Mike Byrne. He is down about two right now. Thanks.

Thank you

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On 2/21/2019 at 11:48 AM, thisistheshow said:

I just went over to the Beta custom sets and looked at both of yours. Very nice!! I can only imagine that they need to be viewed in person to appreciate the artistry. As I've said, I have recently become interested in medals and tokens. I am on a very small collecting budget, so viewing these tokens on here is as close as I will get for now. Thanks for taking the time to post your sets.

Did you send me the image of a cornerstone with a variety. The only ones they count are mules. Doubled .Dies mean nothing. But mixing up the planchects of course often. One were a ship should of been there there was an image of something else. Does add anything to the value either today or back then. . But the  dealers will tell you this is a a variety is  rare. Not true no mistakes made it worth anymore.or less. Good point. Mike

Edited by MIKE BYRNE

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1 hour ago, MIKE BYRNE said:

Did you send me the image of a cornerstone with a variety. The only ones they count are mules. Doubled .Dies mean nothing. But mixing up the planchects of course often. One were a ship should of been there there was an image of something else. Does add anything to the value either today or back then. . But sneaker dealers will tell you this is a Nuremberg rare. Not true no mistakes made it worth anymore.or less. Good point. Mike

I didn't send you an image, it must have been someone else.

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17 hours ago, thisistheshow said:

I just went over to the Beta custom sets and looked at both of yours. Very nice!! I can only imagine that they need to be viewed in person to appreciate the artistry. As I've said, I have recently become interested in medals and tokens. I am on a very small collecting budget, so viewing these tokens on here is as close as I will get for now. Thanks for taking the time to post your sets.

Your right actually holding them is a joy. Take out you magnifying glass don't need a loop and you can count every brick and the weight of the penny's not only big but thick. I forgot to measure them. When you have tokens like this as have to slab them. We usually don't and we don't believe in grades so you will be seeing some beautiful raw which most of us collect. Thanks. Mike

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On 3/16/2019 at 10:43 PM, Revenant said:

I have a group of little Whitman folders that I bought at Hobby Lobby. To the extent to which they're filled I've filled them mostly from searching rolls from circulation. I haven't tried to update them in 10 years or more. I've been trying to convince myself to go back and start looking for the new coins for them sometime. I just haven't gotten around to it.

Can you I manage them with those instruments it must of taken weeks. Each brick and window the iron fence I can't imagine there gift. Thanks

Edited by MIKE BYRNE

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On 3/17/2019 at 1:28 PM, longstrider said:

They were truly gifted men.

Yes they were the hours and she they spent is amazing thanks very much.. Mike

On 3/17/2019 at 1:28 PM, longstrider said:

They were truly gifted men.

 

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On 2/21/2019 at 11:48 AM, thisistheshow said:

I just went over to the Beta custom sets and looked at both of yours. Very nice!! I can only imagine that they need to be viewed in person to appreciate the artistry. As I've said, I have recently become interested in medals and tokens. I am on a very small collecting budget, so viewing these tokens on here is as close as I will get for now. Thanks for taking the time to post your sets.

Thanks for.letting me know. I appreciate it Mike

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On 3/23/2019 at 9:30 AM, Revenant said:

Getting something graded and encapsulated with the main goal being to protect it / preserve it I think is more common than some people give it credit for. As I've said in posts on the boards, protecting the notes, which are on fairly cheap / low quality paper, is my primary motivation in building a set of PMG graded Zimbabwean banknotes. I've said it myself many times - the PMG grade doesn't really add any value in this series unless you luck into something like a 68EPQ, 69EPQ grade. Anything lower than that? the increase in the sale price of the note barely covers the cost of bulk grading for dealers - it's less than the cost of grading if you're submitting individual notes yourself. So it's 100% not about the value for me. It's 100% about the long term presentation and preservation of the set. I have coins that fit into this same category - bought graded for preservation and presentation, because I really do like the new generation of NGC holders. I like them a lot.

 

 

On 2/21/2019 at 11:11 AM, thisistheshow said:

Is there someplace I can view your set? Or should I check out the ANA blogs for pictures?

go to registry non competitive sets two will come up both mine

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I find it interesting that private citizens made tokens, and that the government could not afford to ramp up production, but I guess the same thing happens in the United States. I saw your set... There are some very nice examples in there. 

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10 hours ago, jackcoppercoincollector said:

I find it interesting that private citizens made tokens, and that the government could not afford to ramp up production, but I guess the same thing happens in the United States. I saw your set... There are some very nice examples in there. 

Hi Jack. We did it hear. Civil war tokens. Britain was near bankruptcy because of the war with French with us and there civil war the monarchy would not release silver and gold. So the people had to do what they had to ,to survive. The Coventry set is believed to be the only complete set that Kempson made. We don't believe in slabs but these are 223 years old. There all MS and took five years. Many others in England and here even one who lived in Coventry can't find one. Raw or slabed. You might see a few here and there but all a auctions no sets. 

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On 3/26/2019 at 9:33 PM, jackcoppercoincollector said:

I find it interesting that private citizens made tokens, and that the government could not afford to ramp up production, but I guess the same thing happens in the United States. I saw your set... There are some very nice examples in there. 

They were made in the Soho Mint and the Bimingham mint. The government has very little silver and gold because of there was with France, the U.S. There own civil war they were in the verge of bankruptcy. That would of been a mess. So they used tokens just like the ones made here during the civil war. Soldiers had to be pai. They went them home to keep the farm going they bought shoes for themselves and food to live and fight. Tokens were used in many countries. Thanks Mike.

 

 

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On 2/19/2019 at 4:12 PM, thisistheshow said:

I have heard these tokens mentioned but never really learned much about them. After reading your post I did an image search and was surprised at the HUGE variety. I look forward to learning more as time allows and as you share more. 

 

Thank you

Not only that but many collectors don't know the value of thes. You can buy the circulated one on ebay for forty dollars or buy the ones I do from England and profession sellers. Some go into the thousands and some the tens of thousands. Some are not cheep at all. So it has detail workmanship and they have vakue. Thanks.

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Good luck on your future quest. It can take quite a lot for a company to change it's mistakes. Let us know what is happening..

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2 minutes ago, longstrider said:

Good luck on your future quest. It can take quite a lot for a company to change it's mistakes. Let us know what is happening..

I will keep you all uodated. I have already got some of the smile of authors that I need. From there I can't divulge my plans. But some are in place. I'm a fighter I believe a wrong should be writed . This error no long how.It takes will be fixed. The last one took three months this will be longer but McNeill be done with respect to Franklin NGC and the experts in the Conder industry. Thanks. Mike

 

 

 

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